# The Woody Allen Appreciation Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2005, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506 "2005-01-13T04:44:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/1 "2005-01-13T04:44:50Z")
I suppose I must have seen about half of Allen’s films, most recently _The Purple Rose of Cairo_ on DVD. I thought it was magical, and thought-provoking in terms of both the nature of love and ofthe superficiality not just of the film industry but of much of life in general. So pitch in here with your thoughts on Allen’s work. Discussion of the influence of his personal life seems inevitable, since his films are so personal. I just ask that this is discussed in a non-judgemental way. Criticism of all shades welcome. When I wrote “appreciation”, I meant it in the sense of an evaluation of his work, not a tribute. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/2 "2005-01-13T05:13:34Z")
Bank teller reading holdup note: “‘Give me all your money. I have a gub.’ What’s a gub?” Virgil Starkwell: “No, that’s gun.” BT: “Really? It looks like gub.” VS: “No. That’s gun. That’s a n, not a b.” BT, calling other other BT over:" Does this look like a b or an n?" OBT: “A b, definitely.” Looking at VS, “What’s a gub?” VS (yelling): “It’s GUN! Give me all your money, I have a GUN!” Bank cop rushes over to arrest Virgil. I seem to encounter something similar in almost every relationship of my life. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/3 "2005-01-13T05:26:59Z")
Which film is that from, **NCB**? I’ve seen it but can’t place it. (Yeah, all his films are the same anyway…) ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/4 "2005-01-13T05:39:10Z")
Take the Money and Run, one of his earliest (and funniest). I’m a lifelong Woody Allen fan, and inevitably the youngest person in the theater whenever I go to his movies. If I go with my parents, they’re usually the next-youngest. As much as I like Woody, I find myself really enjoying the films where he casts a younger actor in the typical “Woody” role–Sean Penn in Sweet and Lowdown, John Cusack in Bullets Over Broadway, Kenneth Branagh in Celebrity, and most recently, Jason Biggs in Anything Else. It just stretches credibility A BIT when Woody casts himself as the lead, and then has Debra Messing and Tea Leoni fighting over him, as in Hollywood Ending. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/5 "2005-01-13T06:27:43Z")
I’ve seen every one of the 37 films Woody’s directed, most of them, especially the early ones, many times. _The Purple Rose of Cairo_ is probably my favorite, and arguably one of his best. It’s as funny as any of the early ones, but much more refined than them. It has a clever concept that is deftly executed, but also a serious message that never gets too heavy. I just love the ending, and in case anyone here hasn’t seen it… [spoiler]Cecilia (Mia Farrow) has had her heart broken by Gil Shepherd (Jeff Daniels), and in tears she sits down in the movie theater. An Astaire and Rogers film is showing. As she watches, the camera holds on her face for what seems like an eternity, and slowly, slowly, she gets more engrossed in the film. Finally, a tiny smile curls up around the edge of her mouth. Fade out. It sums up perfectly why we all go to the movies.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/6 "2005-01-13T06:38:10Z")
**Commasense** , for me the ending [SPOILER]showed what a dupe the Farrow character was. The really sad thing was that she was pathetic enough to derive her happiness from a film, compounded by the fact that she appeared to be dull enough not to realise that she was doing this. I admit it’s an interesting ending. Perhaps it was indeed devised by Allen to be interpreted in both these ways, and more besides.[/SPOILER] Which of his early ones do you particularly recommend? There are a number I haven’t seen. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/7 "2005-01-13T07:00:56Z")
_Manhattan_ is still one of my very favorite movies. The day that I saw it the first time, I sat through it twice – really blown away by the way everything came together. As the song said, it “filled up my senses.” Even his list of things that make life worth living (near the end of the movie) led to enjoyment of other works of art. I never knew what to expect when going to a Woody Allen movie except terrific music, Gordon Willis’s genius behind the camera, and those black and white credits I could always read. Even then, maybe there were exceptions. I just can’t imagine being complex enough to be as versatile as he is. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/8 "2005-01-13T07:07:51Z")
Can Woody’s fans be divided into Annie Hall-ites and Manhattan-ites, and if so what does this signify? As you may have guessed, I’m an Annie Hall type of guy, but I guess it’s time I took in Manhattan again. (Can Scorsese fans be similarly divided into Taxi Driver and Raging Bull fans?) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/9 "2005-01-13T07:37:32Z")
**Roger** , _Annie Hall_ is my second favorite Woody Allen movie and probably his masterpiece. \*La-dee-da. La-dee-da. \* ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/10 "2005-01-13T07:42:10Z")
There goes another of my theories! It’s the film that makes me want to have been able to watch Woody doing stand-up. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/11 "2005-01-13T07:49:24Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > Can Woody’s fans be divided into Annie Hall-ites and Manhattan-ites, and if so what does this signify? As you may have guessed, I’m an Annie Hall type of guy, but I guess it’s time I took in Manhattan again. I like them both. They are my 2 favorite Woody Allen movies, and I find them equally wonderful. I can’t imagine how one could not like his movies, in the same way that I can’t imagine how anyone could not like J.S. Bach’s music. ---
**Author:** ![E.Thorp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@E.Thorp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E.Thorp)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/12 "2005-01-13T08:13:31Z")
I love **Annie Hall** and **Manhattan**. Some of my other favorites: **Hannah and Her Sisters** : “God She’s Beautiful,” Woody’s brief conversion to Catholicism, Max von Sydow’s rants. On a disturbing note, is that a 12-year-old Soon-Yi in the living room at Thanksgiving? **Love and Death** : slapstick Russian epic. **Everyone Says I Love You** : wonderful songs, hilarious choreography. “It is Bavarian pasta, it doesn’t need sauce! Italian pasta needs sauce…the Italians were weak!” On the serious side, I really like **Crimes and Misdemeanors** , for Martin Landau’s performance and for the Schubert quartet on the soundtrack. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/13 "2005-01-13T11:58:27Z")
“I Don’t know if you remember me but we spent the _worst_ night of my life together.” Will Miramax _please_ put out a boxed set? (I’m a sucker for boxed sets!) I’ve got all the MGM/UA boxed sets, and I’ve got the Dreamworks boxed set. I bought the three Columbia/Tristar films separately because I don’t expect them to release a boxed set of _Husbands and Wives_, _Manhattan Murder Mystery_, and _Sweet and Lowdown_ especially because of the 6 year gap between _MMM_ and _S&L_. I bought _What’s Up Tiger Lily_ singly but I’m holding out on buying _Take the Money and Run_ because years ago a widescreen VHS was released but for some inexplicable reason the DVD is Pan and Scan- what’s up with that? Widescreen VHS but Pan and Scan DVD??? But Miramax has a wonderful 5 film Woody Allen library. 5 films makes a _perfect_ DVD boxed set. And the 5 films were released in a row and represent one of his best periods (even if you don’t agree that this was one of his best periods it was certainly a period that was very distinct and it inspired a revival of widespread interest in his work). I’m convinced that as soon as I buy even one of the Miramax films they will release a boxed set the next week! As to the idea that there are _Annie Hall_ Woody Allen fans and _Manhattan_ Woody Allen fans: I’ll quote _Kill Bill_: > [@](#): > > When you compare a Hattori Hanzo sword, you compare it to every other sword in the world NOT made by Hattori Hanzo. _Annie Hall_ and _Manhattan_ are both beautiful films. Right now I’m in a _Manhattan_ phase but other times I find myself in an _Annie Hall_ phase- it seems to be cyclical. My favorites: [ul] [li] Purple Rose of Cairo[/li][li] Deconstructing Harry[/li][li] Crimes and Misdemeanors[/li][li] Manhattan[/li][li] Annie Hall[/li][li] Sweet and Lowdown[/li][li] Love and Death[/li][li] Hannah and Her Sisters[/li][li] Bananas[/li][li] Interiors[/li][/ul] I saw the trailer for the new movie, _Melinda and Melinda_, it looks great!!! ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/14 "2005-01-13T12:17:57Z")
And apart from the movies, _The Complete Prose_ was my bed side companion for years. I have read most of it so many times that when someone at work recently expressed admiration for Woody I impulsively gave him the book because he had never heard of it. Every once in a while he drops by my desk to talk about a piece he has read. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/15 "2005-01-13T12:49:10Z")
> [@don't ask](#): > > And apart from the movies, _The Complete Prose_ was my bed side companion for years. I have read most of it so many times that when someone at work recently expressed admiration for Woody I impulsively gave him the book because he had never heard of it. Every once in a while he drops by my desk to talk about a piece he has read. Does that collect his essays from Getting Even, Side Effects, and Without Feathers, by any chance? I found those three books at a cheap used book store back when I was a younger teenager, and it would be fair to say they changed my life–made me want to write and become more of a creative person. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/16 "2005-01-13T13:32:47Z")
I’ve been a Woody Allen fan ever since I passed up seeing **Alice’s Restaurant** and took in **Take the Money and Run**. He started out as a great comedian, and evolved into a true pantheon director. His movies are not only clever, but work on many levels, and there is often more in them that the surface indicates. For instance, there’s his “Artist as Bastard” trilogy: **Bullets Over Broadway, Deconstructing Henry,** and **Straight and Lowdown** – all based on the premise that to be an artist you sometimes need to be cruel. There’s **A Midsummer Night’s Sex Comedy** , which, despite the title, is ultimately a very pessimistic look at relationships, saying they all fall apart and to think otherwise is the same a believing in pixies in the forest. There’s **Manhattan** , in which the one mature character is the 16 year old. I just can’t pick a favorite. All of the above, plus **Annie Hall, Broadway Danny Rose, Bananas, Love and Death** (his last pure comedy, and his funniest), **Crimes and Misdemeanors, Hannah and Her Sisters, The Purple Rose of Cairo, Everyone Says I Love You** (a superb modern movie musical). His work has been tapering off lately, but he is truly one of the great names of film. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/17 "2005-01-13T13:36:16Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Does that collect his essays from Getting Even, Side Effects, and Without Feathers, by any chance? I found those three books at a cheap used book store back when I was a younger teenager, and it would be fair to say they changed my life–made me want to write and become more of a creative person. Indeed it does. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/18 "2005-01-13T13:38:33Z")
Manhattan Sleeper Annie Hall Zelig Take the Money and Run Those are my favorites. Damn, what fun I could have with an Orgasmatron. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/19 "2005-01-13T14:21:41Z")
I always felt there was a similar “feel” to **Annie Hall** and **Manhattan** in spite of the fact they are two distinctly different movies. Both of those I’ve watched countless times and never tire of them. I’m particularly fond of \*\*Sleeper \*\* and **Midsummer Night’s Sex Comedy**. \*\*Love and Death \*\* had me giggling for days. One thing I can’t figure out about \*\*Hannah and Her Sisters \*\* is why I loved it the first time I saw it but subsequent viewings grated on my nerves. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506/20 "2005-01-13T16:26:24Z")
“But the joke’s on them, 'cuz it’s restricted!” I can’t think of a single artist who has given me more joy over the years or made me think so much. sometimes think that if I ever found myself making a movie I’d have to ask him for permission to ape his credits style, because why would you ever do them differently? Every Thanksgiving for over a decade now in my family we watch **Broadway Danny Rose**. In a way I think of it as the quintessential Allen film – funny, certainly, but ultimately a story about how difficult it is for people to connect or form any attachment to each other. And yet, at the end, just a hint of optimism. A couple months ago I went on one of periodic Woody kicks and retched several of his films and I have to say that Mia Farrow really is an excellent actress. She’s so subtle in Purple Rose and chameleonlike in Alice (even when she’s not invisible). I tend to think of her as playing only uone kind of role, but she’s very different in Broadway Danny Rose, and there’s one line in Radio Days (after her diction lessons) where her character goes back and forth from naive cigarette girl to cosmopolitan radio personality in two syllables. I agree that he needs to keep casting others as his leading men now, at least if the ingenues remain in their 20’s. That took me right out of my suspension of disbelief in Hollywood Ending, but I loved Anything Else, where he avoided the problem by making Jason Biggs the lead. –Cliffy [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-woody-allen-appreciation-thread/284506.md?page=2)