I’d agree, but I don’t find this unreasonable or especially profound. Even people who admit to being familiar with “crudite” admit to coming by this knowledge through certain exposures that are not universally experienced and track closely with upscaled events, a personal interest in food, and celebrity chefs featured on TV. This suggests that this word is generally a “higher shelf” word, used most in settings and by individuals who are culinary enthusiasts. Not people who are outside these circles.
So I wouldn’t expect those who are unfamiliar with “crudite” to see it on equal plane as “veggie tray”.
Since this has been said repeatedly, I understand this perfectly well. It still doesn’t change other people’s perceptions, though, and that is what I’m explaining. The guy in the link I provided sound like he was using bibliotech in good faith, right? “Bibliotech” is what he calls the library, and none of us are in a position to say that he should be calling it a library. For all we know, that’s what everyone in his circle calls the place. Yet even so, it’s hard to not seem him as silly. That’s all I’m saying.
Not seeing why that matters. A la carte is French. Yes, English-speakers have assimilated it their language, but its very much French. But that’s not any grounds for calling it pretentious. At least not anymore than “Cinco de Mayo” or any other phrase lifted from another language.
The guy at the link was using an extremely slangy version of English. He seems quite young & the young have the right to be silly. In fact, they love to shock the oldsters. I’ve yet to see use of the word as a widespread trend in the English speaking world.
I’m really, really sorry that you feel so inferior & excluded. But it’s not my problem.
A la carte was adopted into English. It is part of our language now, unlike a true foreign word which has not been adopted into English. Cinco de Mayo is a proper name. There is no English equivalent.
Well, I officially have no idea what you’re trying to argue at this point. Are you missing the point about the desirability of constantly walking on eggshells to accommodate the easily offended, or are you actually agreeing with me that it’s not pretentious to use words I’m familiar with in a sentence?
Can you explained what possessed you to put together this combination of words and direct this to me just for having the temerity to suggest that “crudite” tracks with an interest in the culinary arts? Because inferior ole me can’t figure it out.
The phrase “upper shelf.” Which indicates certain words are above you, rather than simply used by people interested in the arcane arts of cooking & eating food. Food Network is part of most basic cable packages, not some exclusive secret known only to the elite.
To repeat once again: I would not look down on anybody who didn’t know the word “crudités.” (Although I find “veggie” rather cloyingly cute.) But I feel really sorry for someone who feels the need to snicker at the use of a relatively common word.
I still don’t understand why that would have any bearing on my earlier point. If Webster-Merriam decided tomorrow to list “bibliotech” in the dictionary because enough people were using as a synonym for library, people would still find it pretentious because of it sounds affectatious.
But it doesn’t seems like anyone agrees with me, so let’s drop it cuz I’m tired of explaining myself.
Let’s talk about perceptions from people unfamiliar with any word.
(a) Oh look, it’s a new word. From it’s context I think they mean that veggie tray
(b) Oh look, it’s a new word. I can’t figure it out from context, so let me ask what it means
These people just expanded their vocabulary, and may actually notice and understand if and when the word pops up again in conversation.
Do some people use terms like bibliotheque to appear different and smart? Undoubtedly. Some might even use crudites and carafe for the same reason (though I’d put the percentage much higher on bibliotheque-users and lowest on the carafe-users).
Y’know, if we’re just going by the poll numbers, seems pretty clear the first option is correct. Out of 415 people, 292 know the word and its definition; 333 have at least heard of the darn thing. Anything that’s known by 60 - 80% of the population strikes me as common!
Far from being the pretentious/oblivious ones, I think an argument can be made that we option #1 folks are being more humble and democratic than our hifalutin’ option #2 counterparts. We know the word and figure others do, too. Whereas the option #2ers seem to assume that they’re in an elite group, with their exotic-word-knowing and everything. “Oh, certainly I know of crudites, but the lumpen masses surely do not!”
Again, I was simply explaining why they were false equivalencies. Not commenting on your point.
However, if it became adopted into English, in your scenario, why would it be pretentious? It would be a valid English word that someone thought was the best choice for they were trying to say.
Well, that’s you jumping to conclusions about what I think. D_Odds used the phrase “higher shelf” and I just picked up on it. When I used “higher shelf”, I meant precisely what I said. Nothing about superiority or inferiority. Only that the word is associated with a crowd and culture than more likely than not, treats food like a craft. (How you inferred superiority from this still boggles my mind.)
Therefore, people outside of this culture wouldn’t equate “veggie tray” with “crudites”. Because they associate the former with what is familiar with them: raw veggies that are meant to be eaten. They associated the latter with something that a celebrity chef would prepare. And all I’m saying is that this is not unreasonable.
Actually, for you to read what I wrote and respond with a mock apology like you did strongly suggests the opposite. You protest too much. It should be obvious by now, but I’ll say it again: I do not judge anyone who favors “crudites” over veggie tray/platter.
I’m saying you don’t have to constantly be on eggshells and using the word crudites is not in and of itself pretentious. Hence the fallacy of the excluded middle.
I really can’t be the judge of whether using that word is pretentious or not, since I have never heard it before and therefore can’t judge the motives of the people who might know what it means and how to appropriately use it. The fact that a poll about who knew the meaning of a word got hundreds of posts made me curious enough to finally open this thread. Got me thinking, however, if I’ve lived my whole life and never heard a certain English word, how could conclude *anything but *that it must be a pretty obscure word. Yet, a sizable portion of this audience was familiar with it. I wonder what other words are out there and commonly used that I’m blissfully ignorant of.
