# The word homophobic **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 31, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795 "2003-05-31T17:56:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/41 "2003-06-02T14:19:28Z")
Mockingbird > [@](#): > > And that impacts this debate in what way? It was an answer to my post (I guess it’s obvious now that I AM on ignore lists). ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/42 "2003-06-02T15:32:51Z")
I think it’s a jab at men who discriminate against gays or are averse to homosexual behavior. Labelling them as ‘phobic’…fearful…is a way of knocking them off their supposed manly perch. It suggests you must be a sissy yourself if you cower at the thought of a harmless homosexual, as if this will somehow convince people that a real man is comfortable enough with his manhood to ‘accept’ homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![doctordoowop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@doctordoowop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doctordoowop)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/43 "2003-06-02T16:09:27Z")
MBird-see Pbrat’s posts. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/44 "2003-06-02T19:14:19Z")
_{sigh}_ Are we having this discussion _again_? Look, folks, we’re not always the ones that come up with these words. For better or for worse, and etymologically precise or not, “homophobia” is the GLBT equivalent of sexism, racism, anti-Semitism, classism, and so forth. From Merriam-Webster: > [@](#): > > Main Entry: **ho·mo·pho·bia** > Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'fO-bE-& > Function: _noun_ > Date: 1969 > : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals Note the “discrimination aganist” part. Again, “-phobia” simply means fear, but, as the English language is wont to do, it has evolved a bit. Now, some folks like the term “heterosexism,” which is a little more specific; basically, it is the belief that heterosexuality is the preferred norm. From [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com): > [@](#): > > **heterosexism** > n : discrimination in favor of heterosexual and against homosexual people Similarly, “homosexism” could mean the opposite. If you _really_ want to be specific, I’d recommend “anti-gay,” since that’s what most people refer to when they use the term “homophobia.” It’s certainly clear, concise, and gets to the heart of the matter. Certainly we’ve heard of “anti-gay amendments” or “anti-gay groups,” so it’s a viable option. Personally, I like the term “homophobia” because the hatred against the GLBT communities is truly borne of fear, IMHO. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/45 "2003-06-02T19:37:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Would you say that heterosexuals are people who practice heterosexuality? \*\* Yes, I would. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/46 "2003-06-02T19:51:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\*Yes, I would. \*\* So no one is a heterosexual or homosexual until they have sex? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/47 "2003-06-02T20:07:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*So no one is a heterosexual or homosexual until they have sex? \*\* From [Dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=heterosexuality): het·er·o·sex·u·al·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ht-r-sksh-l-t) n. Sexual orientation to persons of the opposite sex. Sexual activity with another of the opposite sex. So no, not when they first have sex, but whatever their inclinations are. Just as there are people (not many, but I used to know one) who are simply not interested in sex at all. I would say they are asexual, and practice asexuality. I don’t want to get into a battle over the definitions of these words, but then that is what this thread is all about, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/48 "2003-06-02T20:16:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spectrum \* > \*\*Where do you draw the line? As far as I’m concerned, not being fully supportive of total equality for gay Americans (or whatever the reader’s nationality might be) in terms of adoption, marriage, legal protections, military service, tax exemptions, etc, is actively attempting to interfere with the lives of gay people, and is in fact seeking to force all of society to “treat gays differently” to use your words. I doubt anyone could make a case otherwise. \*\* Anyone else being remiinded of **Kirkland1244** by this statement? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/49 "2003-06-02T21:26:36Z")
Oh, no - **Kirk** was _way_ more vitrolic than that. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Sionach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Sionach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionach)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/50 "2003-06-02T23:16:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spectrum \* > **Just as a point of fact, there is no such thing as “the gay lifestyle.” Just as there’s no such thing as “the heterosexual lifetsyle.” You imply a uniformity that does not exist.** So what term would YOU use to describe the life of someone who is homosexual? Please enlighten me, as I’d like to be sure to inform my lesbian aunt she was horribly mistaken when she explained to me her “sexual preference” is, in fact, a lifestyle. > [@](#): > > \*\*Where do you draw the line? As far as I’m concerned, not being fully supportive of total equality for gay Americans (or whatever the reader’s nationality might be) in terms of adoption, marriage, legal protections, military service, tax exemptions, etc, is actively attempting to interfere with the lives of gay people, and is in fact seeking to force all of society to “treat gays differently” to use your words. I doubt anyone could make a case otherwise. \*\* So how does neutrality = active interference? Your attitude is a rather non-constructive “if you’re not with us, you’re against us” sort of attitude. Choosing to abstain from a vote does not turn someone into a Fred Phelps-style homophobe. Frankly, I have a great deal more respect for someone who says, “I don’t agree with what you do, nor can I support what you do, but I respect your right to do it,” as opposed to someone who says, “Your beliefs are wrong, you must change to suit MY view of what is right and support everything I want.” The latter is woefully intolerant, while the former at least attempts to reach some sort of middle-ground. Whether you’re a right-wing conservative or a radical gay activist, you’re much more likely to find peace in life if you choose to live and let live, rather than trying to force the “other side” into agreeing with you. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/51 "2003-06-03T00:17:56Z")
> [@](#): > > **Spectrum:** Just as a point of fact, there is no such thing as “the gay lifestyle.” Just as there’s no such thing as “the heterosexual lifetsyle.” You imply a uniformity that does not exist. > > **Sionach:** So what term would YOU use to describe the life of someone who is homosexual? Please enlighten me, as I’d like to be sure to inform my lesbian aunt she was horribly mistaken when she explained to me her “sexual preference” is, in fact, a lifestyle. The problem is not with the noun, it’s with the article. I am a Christian. But I will be mortally offended if you decide that therefore I must support the rectal apertures who use selected Bible passages to do harm to my gay brothers and sisters, or call anyone who has had an abortion a murderer. We’re not monolithic. And neither is the gay community. _ **"The** _ gay lifestyle" does not exist, any more than _ **the** _ Christian viewpoint about any given controversial issue. ---
**Author:** ![Sionach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Sionach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionach)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/52 "2003-06-03T01:07:39Z")
Hmm, I’m not sure I understand the problem though. A viewpoint is a way of thinking, and it certainly would be unfair to assume that, to use your example, all Christians hold the same viewpoints simply because of their religion. But, a lifestyle is a way of living . . . gays, by definition, share a lifestyle in that they’re involved in relationships and/or live with same-sex partners. If that isn’t living the “gay lifestyle,” what term WOULD be appropriate? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/53 "2003-06-03T01:14:19Z")
Lifestyle, to me, implies a broader range of daily activities. There are people who make clubbing a lifestyle. There are people who make camping a lifestyle. There are people who make politics a lifestyle. Just because I’d be dating a person of the same sex does not mean my day-to-day actions are radically different from yours, **Sionach**. Who I do them with? Perhaps. But I fail to see how that makes a lifestyle. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/54 "2003-06-03T01:23:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionach \* > So what term would YOU use to describe the life of someone who is homosexual? Fabulous. Duh:D Seriously, though: encapsulate your life in one word that encompassed your sexuality, your job, your music preference, your experiences growing up, your educational level … there are an awful lot of parts to one’s life, aren’t there? Using a descriptor that only tells you one aspect of that person’s life and having it represent the whole is rather pointless, IMO. > [@](#): > > Sionach goes on to say: > But, a lifestyle is a way of living . . . gays, by definition, share a lifestyle in that they’re involved in relationships and/or live with same-sex partners. If that isn’t living the “gay lifestyle,” what term WOULD be appropriate? No. This is untrue. What connects gay men, in the end, is this fact: They are attracted to men in the same sense that straight men are attracted to women. That, in the end, is the only thing that is related to sexuality (just so someone can’t come in and say “Hey! They all breathe, too!”) that all gay men share. A lifestyle is a way of living. Being gay is not a way of living. It’s who you desire for things like sex, to be sure. But it also involves every aspect of life that heterosexuals have … dating, cuddling, going to movies, breaking up, jealousy, etc. The only real difference is the gender/sex of the person. And furthermore, being a man and being in a relationship with a man doesn’t make you gay. My friend Chris, I’m sure, would be rather surprised to learn that because he’s had a boyfriend (and was monogamous at the time), he’s gay. He’s still attracted to women and all that, you see:) ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/55 "2003-06-03T01:33:53Z")
Tell me more of The Heterosexual Lifestyle, then, **Sionach**. It fascinates me… Esprix ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/56 "2003-06-03T04:22:32Z")
The phrase ‘gay lifestyle’ is a boogeyman used by straight supremacists to conjure up the specters of amyl-huffing anal-sex thousand-person bathhouse orgies, as if that’s the only thing that gay people do. It’s as insane and insulting as referring to ‘the black lifestyle’ or ‘the hispanic lifestyle’; all those groups are composed of individuals, and their lifestyles aren’t defined by their orientation or race. Conveniently, a few weeks ago, I started a thread entitled [Your Gay Lifestyle: What’s It Like, Really?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=180764) in order to dispel some of the myths that the ill-informed might have about what it is that gay people actually do. Be warned: it contains a lot of mundane stuff like working, relationships, laundry, love, and lots of money troubles. But hey, that’s life. Not lifestyle, mind you. Life. ---
**Author:** ![Sionach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Sionach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionach)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/57 "2003-06-03T05:54:06Z")
Heh, apparently I can’t win when it comes to word-choices . . . I’ve had prior conversations in which I asserted the only difference between gays and straights is, essentially, the sex of the partner involved (i.e., that someone just happens to be attracted to someone else of the same sex), and was informed in no uncertain terms that it wasn’t sexual preference, but “a lifestyle.” Admittedly, all my close relationships & friendships with gays have been confined to lesbians, so perhaps that phrase is more prevalent in the lesbian community? Whatever the cause, obviously I’ll have to use very different wording here than I do elsewhere. Despite your interpretation of what “gay lifestyle” means, MrVisible, _I_ have only ever used the phrase to refer to being involved in homosexual relationships, without any of the horrid negative connotations you applied. Your interpretation of the phrase is honestly shocking; I’d no idea such a seemingly innocuous phrase would be interpreted so negatively & it was certainly not my intention to be insulting. Thanks iampunha and Priam for calmly explaining your take on the definition of lifestyle - it’s helped clarify the semantic issue a great deal. And Esprix, what makes you think I know anything about the Heterosexual Lifestyle? Never assume . . . 😛 Considering the semantic issue has been resolved, allow me to re-phrase my initial post to be more in line with my original intentions: “When I hear ‘homophobic’ I don’t think of someone who simply disagrees with homosexuality, but of someone who treats gays differently (worse) than they treat others. IMO, the difference is tolerance - someone who disagrees with homosexuality, yet doesn’t treat gays differently or seek to interfere with their lives is a tolerant person. Someone who disagrees with homosexuality and actively attempts to interfere with gays’ lives or treats gays differently is an intolerant homophobe.” Hopefully that’s more clear. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/58 "2003-06-03T07:07:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionach \* > Heh, apparently I can’t win when it comes to word-choices . . . I’ve had prior conversations in which I asserted the only difference between gays and straights is, essentially, the sex of the partner involved (i.e., that someone just happens to be attracted to someone else of the same sex), and was informed in no uncertain terms that it wasn’t sexual preference, but “a lifestyle.” Those people probably had no qualms at all with what they mistakenly call “reparative” therapy, and what the enlightened and/or sane world calls conversion therapy. Probably also believe that “gays can be saved through prayer”. These people, despite being shown how they are wrong from both a practical and logical point of view, continue ontheir merrily ignorant way because, well, it doesn’t harm _them_ to be horribly ignorant and bigoted. And if they do not believe they are directly harmed, then they see no reason to change. As I have yet to meet one who does not self-identify as Christian, I have a term for these and others of their ilk (creationists, 9-commandment christians, etc) which I believe displays both what they believe they are and what the rest of us see them as: Hypochristians. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/59 "2003-06-03T14:16:49Z")
I have a term for these and others of their ilk (creationists, 9-commandment christians, etc) which I believe displays both what they believe they are and what the rest of us see them as: Hypochristians. That’s nice, now you have a derogetory term for those who disagree with you (where did “creationists” come from?). Now, your point? ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795/60 "2003-06-03T14:39:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrVisible \* > **The phrase ‘gay lifestyle’ is a boogeyman used by straight supremacists** About 10 years ago I was looking for a place to live and answered an ad looking for a ‘liberal’ roommate. I didn’t know at the time that was a euphemism for ‘gay’, and it didn’t matter to me anyway so I answered the ad. The guy asked me on the phone if I was straight. I told him I was but that I didn’t mind having a gay roommate. He told me that it wouldn’t work out because I wouldn’t understand the lifestyle. I know it’s only one example of ‘gay lifestyle’ being used by a non-straight supremacist, but it does show how anyone might use the term when it suits them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-homophobic/178795.md?page=4)