# The word Shiksa **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 18, 2022, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444 "2022-10-18T16:18:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/81 "2022-10-18T20:14:07Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > If you talk affectionately about Mrs. Cad, your Jewess, who doesn’t like some TV show, I probably wouldn’t have moderated it, either. Probably not even if you referred to your wife affectionately as your kike. I think you should consider both of those as moddable. And very most definitely “kike” should be modded. That’s extremely offensive, and has never been anything else. “Jewess” probably wasn’t considered offensive around, say, 1920. But a lot of people consider it offensive now. ETA: as sexist, even if not as otherwise bigoted. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/82 "2022-10-18T20:19:39Z")
I believe the post was reported at the time, and a mod (not me, not sure who) rejected the report. And it just got reported again because of my comment. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/83 "2022-10-18T20:24:13Z")
Huh, I guess that makes sense, though now I wonder as to why the OP left that context out. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/84 "2022-10-18T20:32:57Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > A gentle mod note asking the author to refrain from using derogatory terms on the Board, even if obviously used in a loving way, might have been a better way to go. Agreed. > [@Joeu](#): > > It can be used affectionately, in an insider group, or humorously, but the affection and the humor both rely on the negative meaning of the word for their force. Also agreed. I think I’ve brought up before a friendly neighbor drunkenly wandering through my open front door and commenting on my white sibling’s adorable gweilo baby. My Chinese sister-in-law was very unamused. My neighbor meant nothing by it - he was also a white guy married to an Asian woman and had a mixed-race kid. Obviously he used the term unseriously and affectionately and he likely wouldn’t have even said it if he wasn’t happily blitzed. But my SiL didn’t know that nor would she have cared. All she heard was a nasty slur directed at her infant daughter. Reclaiming slurs is a thing as are gently affectionate family takes on them. But best to leave it at home. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/85 "2022-10-18T20:34:10Z")
Given that pretty much every Yiddish word that I know is either a nickname for a part of the anatomy or can be used as an insult, I try to avoid using any of them unless both I and whoever I’m speaking to are totally clear about tone and context. In my 20 years on the SDMB I can attest that we’re never on the same page regarding tone and context. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/86 "2022-10-18T20:36:31Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > it is also fair to say that there are a great many other occasions where one has to work really hard to find offense where none was intended Very true. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/87 "2022-10-18T20:45:12Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > If you talk affectionately about Mrs. Cad, your Jewess, who doesn’t like some TV show, I probably wouldn’t have moderated it, either. Probably not even if you referred to your wife affectionately as your kike. Seriously? Both of those damn well better draw at least a mod note. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Do you agree at least that the K-word is more offensive than Shiksa? I can’t speak to shiksa, but Jewess is usually wrong and kike is spectacularly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/88 "2022-10-18T20:49:14Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Seriously? Both of those damn well better draw at least a mod note. The problem with modding someone who affectionately refers to their wife as a Jewess is that the rule against personal insults doesn’t apply. So you would have to determine that “Jewess” is hate speech in this context, where the individual is actually using it as a term of affection. Which I think is the wrong decision. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/89 "2022-10-18T20:51:53Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > Seriously? Both of those damn well better draw at least a mod note. > > The problem with modding someone who affectionately refers to their wife as a Jewess is that the rule against personal insults doesn’t apply. So you would have to determine that “Jewess” is hate speech in this context, where the individual is actually using it as a term of affection. Which I think is the wrong decision. Or we could just say Nope, we ain’t doing that. Easy peasy. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/90 "2022-10-18T20:56:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The idea that homosexuality is unacceptable is an obvious part of that saying, but I wouldn’t call it an “anti-gay slur.” My use of language was imprecise. Whatever it is, it’s not a slur. I made a mistake similar to the one made by people who use the term “racist” when what they really mean is “bigoted” or “prejudiced.” Even so, I believe the (idiom? turn of phrase? allusion? not sure how to characterize a “saying” that can be worded in different ways) should be retired. It is too easy to infer that the speaker assumes a shared understanding that homosexual behavior is inherently scandalous. At the same time, I don’t think most people mean any harm when they use it. That leaves me with the option of not using it myself, and politely suggesting to others who use it that they consider whether there is unintended anti-gay sentiment being expressed, then moving on. I can live with that. @Darren_Garrison - I had no recollection that Edwin Edwards originated that phrase, although I’m sure I knew it at the time, as in 1983, for boring reasons I needn’t recount here, Louisiana politics were very important to me. Thanks for the history lesson! ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/91 "2022-10-18T21:14:30Z")
In response to I forget who- If she ever objected to the term, I’ve forgotten the occasion. Doesn’t matter though. As I said above, I’ll stop using the term on the Dope. How do we feel about “my little falooda”? For those unfortunates who have not had it, falooda is vanilla ice cream, basil seeds, cardamom (I think), rose syrup and vermicelli. It is sweet and spectacular. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/92 "2022-10-18T21:20:07Z")
Only if you bring some for everyone. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/93 "2022-10-18T21:36:59Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > As I said above, I’ll stop using the term on the Dope. Thanks. As the child of a Jewish father and non-Jewish mother, I have never heard that term used in a way that wasn’t at least a little bit dismissive and “othering”, and I certainly would have gotten into a world of trouble for using it about either my mother or myself. It’s none of my business what affectionate nicknames you use for and to your wife in private, but in an SDMB post it doesn’t really come across as affectionately as you doubtless intend it. IMHO, anyway. However, also IMHO, it doesn’t come across as in any way anti-Indian, either. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/94 "2022-10-18T21:41:32Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > Seriously? Both of those damn well better draw at least a mod note. ⁢ > > The problem with modding someone who affectionately refers to their wife as a Jewess is that the rule against personal insults doesn’t apply. So you would have to determine that “Jewess” is hate speech in this context, where the individual is actually using it as a term of affection. Which I think is the wrong decision. > > ~Max ⁢ I mean, Jewess is a term that is primarily used by bigots to treat Jewish women as different, and is generally seen as derogatory. I would say “derogatory word used for an ethnicity” does in fact fit under how we categorize “hate speech” here. Granted, I do think that “hate speech” is often used differently in everyday language. It’s being used more how it tends to be used in, well, online communities, rather than how it is used in legal contexts in certain countries. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/95 "2022-10-18T21:52:41Z")
Using derogatory or even racist terms within a group is widely accepted, no matter how outraged outsiders may get about it. That said: > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > If you talk affectionately about Mrs. Cad, your Jewess, who doesn’t like some TV show, I probably wouldn’t have moderated it, either. Probably not even if you referred to your wife affectionately as your kike. > > I can’t speak to shiksa, but Jewess is usually wrong and kike is spectacularly wrong. None of those have ever in my experience been in-group self-references used by Jews or their SOs. The latter two terms carry so much bigoted freight that they should be escorted to the edge of decent society and be told to get the f\*ck out permanently. I view shiksa as derogatory but not hateful if that makes any sense. My only personal experience with it was at the age of 12, when my grandmother, a sweet old lady with never a negative word for anyone, advised me, “Don’t marry a shiksa like your brother.”\* I think it would be a mistake for horrified pearl-clutching to ensue at every conceivable use of “shiksa” on the Dope, but don’t care much either way. \*advice that went unheeded. Mrs. J. was amused by the story. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/96 "2022-10-18T23:00:09Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > My yiddishe mameh wouldn’t care if I brought home a woman who was blue. So long as she was Jewish. Ya know, I was positive you were deliberately setting up a “Funny - she doesn’t look bluish” joke here. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/97 "2022-10-19T02:08:11Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > ETA: as sexist, even if not as otherwise bigoted. I’d say at least sexist, in the sense that it is based on a history of treating masculinity as a default and requiring specifically indicating femininity. Thus, I don’t use words like: - actress - aviatrix - tigress - proprietress - authoress - murderess - barmaid - stewardess - ballerina - comedienne - hostess - housewife - waitress But in the case of “jewess,” the way I hear it, the word carries with it a strong bite of antisemitism as well. (Off topic, but, I once got into a tiff with my aunt when she told me and my brother that she didn’t care whom we married, so long as she weren’t a “negress.” I was jaw-droppingly shocked, mostly with the sentiment itself but also by the use of that strangely archaic word.$ ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/98 "2022-10-19T02:13:25Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > However, also IMHO, it doesn’t come across as in any way anti-Indian, either. Yes, he used the term based on her being a Christian (that is, a non-Jew), not on her being Indian-American. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/99 "2022-10-19T03:05:35Z")
Yeah, it’s astounding how many of those “ethnic female” words are actually attested, sometimes from sources as late as the 20th century. “Jewess” and “Negress” of course, but also “Turkess”, “Indianess”, “Saraceness”, etc. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444/100 "2022-10-19T06:40:15Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Gendered insults, and bitch specifically, have been moderated in posts many times. In the Pit? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-word-shiksa/973444.md?page=6)