# The world dodged a bullet with Clinton's defeat
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 11, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466 "2016-11-11T04:42:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/1 "2016-11-11T04:42:37Z")
[Interesting article](http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/305311-with-trump-victory-the-world-dodges-clintons-foreign) from The Hill.
> [@](#):
>
> With Trump victory, world dodges Clinton’s foreign policy bullet
>
> Although many may not yet realize it, Wednesday morning the world breathed a collective sigh of relief as the United States elected Donald Trump as their next president — and rejected Hillary Clinton.
>
> To appraise how dangerous a Clinton-led United States foreign policy may have been, one need only look at Clinton’s record as Senator for New York and as the nation’s secretary of State from 2009 to 2013.
The article goes on to examine that record and I think it makes some cogent points. I myself posted a couple of times before the election that I thought Hillary Clinton’s statement that she would establish a no-fly zone in Syria when elected President was far more worrying than anything Trump said. Shooting Russian jets out of the sky would have been a surefire recipe for disaster and I breathed a sigh of relief when it became clear she would never get the chance.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/2 "2016-11-11T04:50:15Z")
That was one of the things I was looking \*forward \*to under a Hillary presidency - a hawkish, assertive, unafraid-to-challenge foreign policy.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/3 "2016-11-11T04:57:33Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> That was one of the things I was looking \*forward \*to under a Hillary presidency - a hawkish, assertive, unafraid-to-challenge foreign policy.
So was I, truth be told. At best, the result is _maybe_ you dodged a bullet, but in doing so you walked across a busy highway. Maybe nothing will happen, maybe something a lot worse than a bullet will.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/4 "2016-11-11T04:59:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> So was I, truth be told. At best, the result is _maybe_ you dodged a bullet, but in doing so you walked across a busy highway. Maybe nothing will happen, maybe something a lot worse than a bullet will.
“Walked”? Hell no. “Are walking”. For at least 4 years.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/5 "2016-11-11T05:01:44Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> “Walked”? Hell no. “Are walking”. For at least 4 years.
I mused on how to phrase that, and since it was “dodged a bullet” (past tense) I decided for consistency to go with “walked”.
It was not an ideal grammatical situation.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/6 "2016-11-11T05:02:27Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> That was one of the things I was looking \*forward \*to under a Hillary presidency - a hawkish, assertive, unafraid-to-challenge foreign policy.
Syrian no-fly zone? What if Russia violated it? Would you have wanted a President Clinton to shoot down Russian jet(s)?
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### Author:  [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/7 "2016-11-11T05:06:47Z")
That’s exactly what she should have done. If we’re back to Cold War brinksmanship that means we can’t back down just because Russia pushes us in some part of the world.
If we set up a no-fly zone, the Russia makes a choice whether to violate it and risk their pilots or not, just like they made that calculation when violating Turkish airpsace.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/8 "2016-11-11T05:11:13Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#):
>
> The article goes on to examine that record and I think it makes some cogent points. I myself posted a couple of times before the election that I thought Hillary Clinton’s statement that she would establish a no-fly zone in Syria when elected President was far more worrying than anything Trump said. Shooting Russian jets out of the sky would have been a surefire recipe for disaster and I breathed a sigh of relief when it became clear she would never get the chance.
I’m sorry, but hasn’t a no-nonsense, get-tough, flex-our-muscles foreign policy been a Republican wet dream since Reagan?
Hell, since Nixon?
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/9 "2016-11-11T05:12:26Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#):
>
> I’m sorry, but hasn’t a no-nonsense, get-tough, flex-our-muscles foreign policy been a Republican wet dream since Reagan?
> Hell, since Nixon?
Republicans are the new fellow travelers.
Well, Trump is, anyway.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/10 "2016-11-11T05:23:33Z")
> [@adaher](#):
>
> That’s exactly what she should have done. If we’re back to Cold War brinksmanship that means we can’t back down just because Russia pushes us in some part of the world.
>
> If we set up a no-fly zone, the Russia makes a choice whether to violate it and risk their pilots or not, just like they made that calculation when violating Turkish airpsace.
Why in the fucking hell would we want to go back to Cold War brinkmanship? Back to the time when they had a “doomsday clock” minutes from midnight, back when little kids drilled on how to react to a nuclear strike in schools, when people built bomb shelters in their back yards. And all over a few thousand Syrians in Aleppo? Are you really prepared to risk trading NYC and Chicago for Moscow and St. Petersburg?
That’s the foreign policy position of the supposedly-rational and experienced candidate?
I don’t like New Yorkers much, but even I say no thanks.
“[The 1980s are calling, they want their foreign policy back](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS2a44F5TgM)”
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/11 "2016-11-11T05:29:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> Syrian no-fly zone? What if Russia violated it? Would you have wanted a President Clinton to shoot down Russian jet(s)?
By definition, yes - if you violate a no-fly zone and don’t leave after radioed warnings, “bandit splashed.”
Russia could escalate, but would incur far greater risk by doing so.
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### Author:  [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/12 "2016-11-11T05:30:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> Why in the fucking hell would we want to go back to Cold War brinkmanship? Back to the time when they had a “doomsday clock” minutes from midnight, back when little kids drilled on how to react to a nuclear strike in schools, when people built bomb shelters in their back yards. And all over a few thousand Syrians in Aleppo? Are you really prepared to risk trading NYC and Chicago for Moscow and St. Petersburg?
>
> That’s the foreign policy position of the supposedly-rational and experienced candidate?
>
> I don’t like New Yorkers much, but even I say no thanks.
>
> “[The 1980s are calling, they want their foreign policy back](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS2a44F5TgM)”
because its better than being stepped over by the Russians, who clearly want to build a new Soviet Union. Wanna see what Russia really wants? [Check it out](https://www.rt.com/politics/panarin-usa-collapse-economy-905/).
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/13 "2016-11-11T05:30:38Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> By definition, yes - if you violate a no-fly zone and don’t leave after radioed warnings, “bandit splashed.”
>
> Russia could escalate, but would incur far greater risk by doing so.
We should be more selective in picking which areas we declare no-fly-zones over. Nothing and nobody in Syria is worth even a small chance of a war with Russia.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/14 "2016-11-11T05:31:43Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#):
>
> because its better than being stepped over by the Russians, who clearly want to build a new Soviet Union. Wanna see what Russia really wants? [Check it out](https://www.rt.com/politics/panarin-usa-collapse-economy-905/).
Russia doesn’t want that. California liberals want that.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/15 "2016-11-11T05:32:47Z")
Hey, wait a sec, why does the EU get New England while we get stuck with Montana and Wyoming? Fuck _that_ noise!
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### Author:  [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/16 "2016-11-11T05:33:16Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#):
>
> [Interesting article](http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/305311-with-trump-victory-the-world-dodges-clintons-foreign) from The Hill.
>
> The article goes on to examine that record and I think it makes some cogent points. I myself posted a couple of times before the election that I thought Hillary Clinton’s statement that she would establish a no-fly zone in Syria when elected President was far more worrying than anything Trump said. Shooting Russian jets out of the sky would have been a surefire recipe for disaster and I breathed a sigh of relief when it became clear she would never get the chance.
Wrong… Any politician who pretended to accept climate change would be better than a climate change denier. The Human desire for the World to keep being able to support us took the bullet in the face.
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### Author:  [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/17 "2016-11-11T05:37:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> That was one of the things I was looking \*forward \*to under a Hillary presidency - a hawkish, assertive, unafraid-to-challenge foreign policy.
Seconded. This is one of the worst legacies of the Iraq war; that the US feels powerless to do anything. And that if we do, people scratch around for some CT of what the _real_ reason for getting involved is (in Syria it’s apparently that the US gives a mega fuck about a pipeline being built :rolleyes:).
As for Trump therefore being a dodged bullet, he’s hardly been consistent on what his foreign policy plans are. I suspect he will be much more dangerous because he will overreact to whatever public opinion is, with absolutely no restraint.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/18 "2016-11-11T05:41:26Z")
Maybe you’ll get lucky, and the most he can manage is a twitter flame war.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/19 "2016-11-11T05:49:00Z")
The premise is beyond absurd in its total lack of perspective. Syria is a serious humanitarian and strategic crisis and I frankly don’t know what the answer is, but I do know that the Presidency doesn’t center around one single policy detail that can be easily re-evaluated if the circumstances warrant.
To me this whole argument is kind of like firing your chauffeur because he once made a rolling stop at a stop sign. Not safe – can’t have that. So you fire him and replace him with … a drunken monkey. The way the Trump administration is already shaping up, the man seems determined to do absolutely the wrong thing and the most outrageously asinine thing on every single policy issue that come up. His victory is already been celebrated with a surge in hate crimes, and some of the most notorious incompetents imaginable are being proposed for key roles in government. It’s mind-boggling that anyone could think that this display of malevolent incompetence that is already manifest at this very early stage is “dodging a bullet”. Seems to me that the bullets will soon be flying like raindrops in a summer thunderstorm.
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### Author:  [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)
#### Post date: [November 11, 2016, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-dodged-a-bullet-with-clintons-defeat/771466/20 "2016-11-11T05:54:20Z")
> [@adaher](#):
>
> That’s exactly what she should have done. If we’re back to Cold War brinksmanship that means we can’t back down just because Russia pushes us in some part of the world.
>
> If we set up a no-fly zone, the Russia makes a choice whether to violate it and risk their pilots or not, just like they made that calculation when violating Turkish airpsace.
This is how wars are started. Then there ain’t no reset button.
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