# The world is going to end anyway, so why care about the environment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181 "2018-09-11T19:25:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/21 "2018-09-12T11:45:17Z")
It’s ~20 years since I last spent much time hanging around evangelicals. So what I can’t get my head around is this: how do you get to be an \*old \*Christian and still keep believing the End Times might be around the corner? I mean, I’ve known the Lord for 48 years, and been hearing about the End Times for 47 of those years. How do believers not get to a point of, “yeah, I’ve been hearing for _decades_ now that the world was about to end, and it’s still here - why should I believe it’s gonna happen in the next ten or twenty years, when it hasn’t happened in the past _forty_ years that I’ve been hearing it was gonna happen?” It would be interesting to interview some evangelicals who are in their 50s and 60s about this, just to try to get a handle on the psychology of it. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/22 "2018-09-12T14:41:16Z")
This is from the watchtower: Happily, the Bible assures us that Jehovah God will not allow our earth to be destroyed or rendered uninhabitable. As Creator, he has limitless “dynamic energy,” so he can sustain the universe indefinitely. (Isaiah 40:26) Thus, you can put faith in these words: “[God] has founded the earth upon its established places; it will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever.” “Praise him, you sun and moon. Praise him, all you stars of light. . . . For he himself commanded, and they were created. And he keeps them standing forever.”​—Psalm 104:5; 148:3-6. I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall being taught something similar by my southern baptist family. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/23 "2018-09-12T15:20:08Z")
The real answer is they don’t. This is just a canard liberals tell themselves so they don’t have to come up with counters to the actual arguments. This is why the OP contained no cites, no polls, no facts of any kind. Evangelicals believe that God made man stewards of the Earth and as such we have a responsibility to take care of it. As the much slandered James Watt said “That is the delicate balance the Secretary of the Interior must have, to be steward for the natural resources for this generation as well as future generations. I do not know how many future generations we can count on before the Lord returns, whatever it is we have to manage with a skill to leave the resources needed for future generations.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/24 "2018-09-12T16:30:15Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The real answer is they don’t. This is just a canard liberals tell themselves so they don’t have to come up with counters to the actual arguments. Uh, you seem to have overlooked my link back in post #2 to [an article by an actual evangelical Christian environmentalist](https://relevantmagazine.com/article/god-making-all-things-new-doesnt-mean-christians-can-ignore-the-environment/) who acknowledges that such beliefs are “all too familiar” in Christian circles: > [@](#): > > After the initial introductions, the conversation quickly turned to scripture and matters of faith. Matthew always welcomes an engaging theological discussion and was delighted to have crossed paths with such an intelligent and devoted believer. > > When asked what had brought us to this mountaintop retreat center, Matthew briefly told him about our creation care ministry, Blessed Earth. The conversation stalled for a minute. Then, in a well-meaning tone, the father posed an all-too-familiar question: If Revelation says it’s all going to burn up in the end, why should Christians care? […] > > While traveling the country, we’ve encountered many variations of this “it’s all going to burn anyway” question. Does God’s making all things new mean Christians can ignore the environment? If we’re ultimately made for heaven, why worry about the earth? […] > > Below are some responses that we have found helpful when engaging in conversations with our b[r]others and sisters in Christ, who—often because of what they have heard on radio or in political arenas—initially may be skeptical about the call to care for the environment: > > _Revelation tells us it’s all going to burn up in the end, so why bother taking care of nature?_ […] > > _If we already know the earth is going to burn, why not hasten the end?_ […] > > _Won’t everything be renewed after the rapture anyway?_ […] > > _Aren’t we supposed to be worried about saving souls, not saving whales?_ […] So yeah, anybody who insists that this kind of anti-environmentalism doesn’t really exist among evangelical/fundamentalist Christians is kidding themselves. (And what are “the actual arguments” on the subject that you claim liberals need “counters” to? ISTM that both Christian and non-Christian environmentalists are pretty much in agreement on the importance of environmental policy for solid empirical reasons. There are no valid “arguments” against it that they need to refute.) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/25 "2018-09-12T16:38:31Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It’s ~20 years since I last spent much time hanging around evangelicals. So what I can’t get my head around is this: how do you get to be an \*old \*Christian and still keep believing the End Times might be around the corner? > > I mean, I’ve known the Lord for 48 years, and been hearing about the End Times for 47 of those years. How do believers not get to a point of, “yeah, I’ve been hearing for _decades_ now that the world was about to end, and it’s still here - why should I believe it’s gonna happen in the next ten or twenty years, when it hasn’t happened in the past _forty_ years that I’ve been hearing it was gonna happen?” > > It would be interesting to interview some evangelicals who are in their 50s and 60s about this, just to try to get a handle on the psychology of it. No matter how many minutes have passed during which the earth hasn’t burst into flame (or whatever), none of those disprove the idea that the earth will burst into flame _one minute from now_. In fact the more minutes pass that without the world ending the more likely the next minute will be the last, because you’re that much closer to the end time! ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/26 "2018-09-12T16:52:14Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Uh, you seem to have overlooked my link back in post #2 to [an article by an actual evangelical Christian environmentalist](https://relevantmagazine.com/article/god-making-all-things-new-doesnt-mean-christians-can-ignore-the-environment/) who acknowledges that such beliefs are “all too familiar” in Christian circles: > So yeah, anybody who insists that this kind of anti-environmentalism doesn’t really exist among evangelical/fundamentalist Christians is kidding themselves. (And what are “the actual arguments” on the subject that you claim liberals need “counters” to? ISTM that both Christian and non-Christian environmentalists are pretty much in agreement on the importance of environmental policy for solid empirical reasons. There are no valid “arguments” against it that they need to refute.) The article has an anecdote about a guy they met at a picnic. I don’t remember voting in any election to appoint that guy spokesman for all evangelicals. I could show the petition to address climate change signed by 220 evangelical leaders, but those people don’t speak for us either, evangelicals are split about environmentalism. The real reason is that environmentalism has obvious benefits, but just as obvious costs and everyone has to decide for himself where the line is where those costs outweigh the benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/27 "2018-09-12T16:59:21Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It’s ~20 years since I last spent much time hanging around evangelicals. So what I can’t get my head around is this: how do you get to be an \*old \*Christian and still keep believing the End Times might be around the corner? > > I mean, I’ve known the Lord for 48 years, and been hearing about the End Times for 47 of those years. How do believers not get to a point of, “yeah, I’ve been hearing for _decades_ now that the world was about to end, and it’s still here - why should I believe it’s gonna happen in the next ten or twenty years, when it hasn’t happened in the past _forty_ years that I’ve been hearing it was gonna happen?” > > It would be interesting to interview some evangelicals who are in their 50s and 60s about this, just to try to get a handle on the psychology of it. I’m not quite that old, but I think that most people eventually realize that “End Times” does not automatically equal “the world is going to end any day now.” Yes, it theoretically could–but it probably won’t. Strictly speaking, the End Times began on the Day of Pentecost – see Peter’s quotation from Joel. The “end of the End Times” began when modern-day Israel became a nation. In addition, when God says that something is going to happen “soon” – that’s soon from God’s point of view, not necessarily from man’s point of view. It’s basically the same type of thing as the difference between “time” as we normally think of it, and “geologic time.” ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/28 "2018-09-12T17:01:29Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The article has an anecdote about a guy they met at a picnic. I don’t remember voting in any election to appoint that guy spokesman for all evangelicals. I could show the petition to address climate change signed by 220 evangelical leaders, but those people don’t speak for us either, evangelicals are split about environmentalism. > The real reason is that environmentalism has obvious benefits, but just as obvious costs and everyone has to decide for himself where the line is where those costs outweigh the benefits. Allow me to step forward as the officially acknowledged speaker for all non-evangelicals and say something. This thread is not saying that that all evangelicals believe the end is near and thus the world can burn. It is not telling you what you believe. It is merely saying that the idea is common - certainly more common than it is among non-evangelicals. And it has indeed been my personal experience that certain stripes of religious people are of the opinion that their religion has told them that they don’t have to worry about the environment. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/29 "2018-09-12T17:14:03Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The article has an anecdote about a guy they met at a picnic. As well as descriptions of anti-environmentalist attitudes based on religious arguments that the author says their Christian-environmentalism foundation has encountered from many evangelicals across the country. > [@puddleglum](#): > > […] evangelicals are split about environmentalism. > The real reason is that environmentalism has obvious benefits, but just as obvious costs and everyone has to decide for himself where the line is where those costs outweigh the benefits. :dubious: So are you claiming that anti-environmentalism among evangelical Christians is completely separate from theological beliefs? That any evangelicals who are against environmentalism hold that position on purely pragmatic grounds, independent of what they think Scripture says about the subject? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/30 "2018-09-12T17:14:56Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > In addition, when God says that something is going to happen “soon” – that’s soon from God’s point of view, not necessarily from man’s point of view. It’s basically the same type of thing as the difference between “time” as we normally think of it, and “geologic time.” If the phrase holds no meaning to us, if we are not supposed to be able to interpret the phrase because we are not God…_then why would he bother to say it to us in the first place?_ Is your god incapable of communicating comprehensively with beings lesser than himself? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/31 "2018-09-12T17:29:34Z")
Coming from a JW background, I can tell you that the JW opinion is that the Bible says,“God will bring to ruin those ruining the Earth.” So no need to fret. Just wait for God’s vengeance like we’ve always done. As for myself, I must admit that I don’t concern myself with climate change, because I know I will be long dead without descendants when the worst of it hits. Sorry to sound so shallow, but I just find all the gloom and doom speculation pointless and boring, if you want to know the truth. I personally can do nothing to change what’s happening to the planet, save voting for progressives, but I was already doing that. So to hell with it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/32 "2018-09-12T18:05:06Z")
As long as I can have my limo and my orange hair. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/33 "2018-09-12T19:23:30Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > James Watt, as Secretary of the Interior, said the same thing, and he was responsible for keeping the environment up and running. [Did he really?](https://www.weeklystandard.com/john-hinderaker/rapture-rapture) Can you provide a cite from a reliable source to back up your claim about what James Watt said? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/34 "2018-09-12T19:29:55Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > [Did he really?](https://www.weeklystandard.com/john-hinderaker/rapture-rapture) > > Can you provide a cite from a reliable source to back up your claim about what James Watt said? Can it be just as reliable as [_your_ source?](https://www.weeklystandard.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/35 "2018-09-12T19:40:26Z")
Ooh, look what I found in another corner of the internet: [actual statistics](http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/global-warming-god-end-times/). Left over from March 2016, but probably still good. > [@](#): > > For a significant number of Americans, the reality, causes and meaning of global warming are seen through the lens of their religious beliefs. Some reject the evidence that humans are causing global warming because they believe God controls the climate. Others believe that global warming is evidence that the world will be ending soon, and that we don’t need to worry about global warming in light of the approaching apocalypse. To assess the level of acceptance of these beliefs among Americans, we surveyed a nationally representative sample of 1,204 American adults in March, 2016. […] > > One in seven Americans think it is definitely (7%) or probably (9%) true that “God controls the climate, therefore people can’t be causing global warming.” […] > > Global warming is interpreted as a sign of the end times by one in seven Americans, with 4 percent saying this is definitely so, and another 10 percent that it is probably so. […] > > Just over one in ten (11%) think the end times are coming, therefore we don’t need to worry about global warming. […] > > Close to one in ten Americans (9%) think the apocalypse will happen within their lifetime. […] However, it is very interesting if a subset of conservative and/or evangelical Christianity is now adopting a more bellicose attitude of repudiating this theological anti-environmentalism. _“Of **course** Christians don’t think the environment doesn’t matter because the end of the world is nigh, that’s just an anti-Christian canard!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/36 "2018-09-12T19:48:31Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > [Did he really?](https://www.weeklystandard.com/john-hinderaker/rapture-rapture) > > Can you provide a cite from a reliable source to back up your claim about what James Watt said? “My responsibility is to follow the Scriptures which call upon us to occupy the land until Jesus returns.” > **[James G. Watt Quotes That Speak To What He Believed In](https://www.yourdictionary.com/articles/james-g-watt-quotes-beliefs)** > > Curious about James G. Watt quotes and what they said about the man himself? Discover some of the quotes that speak to who he was here. ---
**Author:** ![Contemplation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Contemplation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contemplation)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/37 "2018-09-12T20:32:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Ooh, look what I found in another corner of the internet: [actual statistics](http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/global-warming-god-end-times/). Left over from March 2016, but probably still good. > > However, it is very interesting if a subset of conservative and/or evangelical Christianity is now adopting a more bellicose attitude of repudiating this theological anti-environmentalism. _“Of **course** Christians don’t think the environment doesn’t matter because the end of the world is nigh, that’s just an anti-Christian canard!”_ Well, those statistics do explain a lot. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/38 "2018-09-12T23:15:57Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > A co-worker believes that we are living in “End Times.” > Although he is an otherwise intelligent person, he is convinced that the Rapture is close. When he mentioned this to me, I pointed out all of the many other times that religious figures have predicted the end of the world, and he just shrugged it off - this time it will happen! Is he a Jehovah’s Witness? They have predicted this many times, with exact dates even though the Bible has some very strong words to say about people who attempt to do this. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/39 "2018-09-13T01:19:17Z")
There are two theoretically distinct but practically simpatico beliefs: 1. “The Earth is too big (or God is too great) for anything man does to have an effect, so don’t worry.” 2. “Why are you worried about the future? Jesus is coming back in the next twenty years!” (Why twenty? I don’t really know. Maybe they were thinking A.D. 2000 was it when I was a kid.) And of course, they have the big lie: “This entire physical universe is a passing vapor[sup]TM[/sup], unworthy of your loyalty. The only things that matter in all of creation are human souls. And your personal eternity, occupying an infinite amount of untime, is more important than the entire sweep of ecological or geological history in any case; so get your soul safe in heaven, and let all else fall away.” ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/40 "2018-09-13T15:20:44Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Ooh, look what I found in another corner of the internet: [actual statistics](http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/global-warming-god-end-times/). Left over from March 2016, but probably still good. > > However, it is very interesting if a subset of conservative and/or evangelical Christianity is now adopting a more bellicose attitude of repudiating this theological anti-environmentalism. _“Of **course** Christians don’t think the environment doesn’t matter because the end of the world is nigh, that’s just an anti-Christian canard!”_ 11% of Americans think that global warming does not matter because the end times are coming. This is less than the percentage of people who [believe](https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/polls/democrats-and-republicans-differ-on-conspiracy-theory-beliefs/)in bigfoot 15%, the number who believe that the government adds mind control messages to tv signals 15%, who believe the pharmaceutical industry is in league with the medical industry to invent new diseases 15%, that a UFO crashed at Roswell and was covered up 21%, and who believe that Barak Obama is the anti-Christ 13%. It is the same percentage who believe or are not sure if shape shifting reptilian aliens control the world. [In 2011](https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2011/04/more-than-half-of-democrats-believed-bush-knew-035224) 22.6% of Democrats thought it was highly likely that government officials either helped or purposely let 9-11 happen and 28.2% thought is was somewhat likely. Because of this should we attribute the reason Democrats opposed Bush to trutherism? The point is not that there are no evangelicals that believe it, but that it is a fringe belief and nobody with actual power believes it. Thus it is a convenient strawman to use so the actual arguments don’t have to be dealt with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181.md?page=3)