# The world is going to end anyway, so why care about the environment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181 "2018-09-11T19:25:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/61 "2018-09-17T02:37:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, no, no, and no. > > You cant get that from that poll. That poll didnt poll evangelicals. > > You have no idea of what % of evangelicals hold those beliefs. > > You know what % of Americans who were polled hold those beliefs, and \*of those \*what % identify as evangelicals, but you can’t draw the conclusion you made. 😕 Are you just not reading my repeatedly [linked cite](http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/global-warming-god-end-times/)? It states what percentage of Americans **overall** think that a certain view is “definitely” or “probably” true, and then it goes on to show the prevalence of that view among various “groups that are more likely to believe” it, as well as among various “groups that are less likely to hold this belief”. If you still don’t get it, look at the [linked data tables](http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Global-Warming-God-and-the-End-Times-DATA-TABLES.pdf) at the end of the linked article. For instance, the first part of those tables contains survey data on the view that “God controls the climate, therefore humans can’t be causing global warming”. The survey respondents are broken down into various categories, and the proportions of each category answering “yes” to the question about that view are stated. \*\*For instance: In the category “Gender”, the stated proportion for “Male” is 15% and the stated proportion for “Female” is also 15%. Do you honestly think that those numbers are telling you what percentage of the respondents who hold that view are male or female? That would imply that 70% of the respondents holding that view identify as _neither male nor female, quod est absurdum_. \*\* I.e., your interpretation of the relative percentages is just plain batshit. The “Gender” category is telling us that 15% of males hold this particular view, not that 15% of people who hold this particular view are male. **Likewise, the “Religious Affiliation” category is telling us that 30% of Evangelical/Born-Again Christians hold this view, not that 30% of people who hold this view are Evangelical/Born-Again Christians.** Golly. I have to hand it to you, **DrDeth**. You could have gotten away with excusing your ludicrous statistical snafu as merely the result of a temporary brain fart, but no, you tenaciously soldiered on to prove that it’s what you actually think. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/62 "2018-09-17T02:52:36Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 Are you just not reading my repeatedly [linked cite](http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/global-warming-god-end-times/)? > > It states what percentage of Americans **overall** think that a certain view is “definitely” or “probably” true, and then it goes on to show the prevalence of that view among various “groups that are more likely to believe” it, as well as among various “groups that are less likely to hold this belief”. > I.e., your interpretation of the relative percentages is just plain batshit. The “Gender” category is telling us that 15% of males hold this particular view, not that 15% of people who hold this particular view are male. > > **Likewise, the “Religious Affiliation” category is telling us that 30% of Evangelical/Born-Again Christians hold this view, not that 30% of people who hold this view are Evangelical/Born-Again Christians.** > Golly. I have to hand it to you, **DrDeth**. You could have gotten away with excusing this ludicrous statistical snafu as merely the result of a temporary brain fart, but no, you tenaciously soldiered on to prove that it’s what you actually think. Again, you are going at this backward. Of those polled 2.6% are American Evangelicals who hold that belief. Not that 26% of Evangelicals hold that belief. You can’t draw that backwards conclusion from the limited data, as this wasnt a poll of evangelicals. Both of your examples are incorrect because you are misusing their data. Let us take your other example. 15% of Americans that were polled believe God Controls the climate. Of that 15% 30% are Evangelicals. Thus of Americans 5% are evangelicals who hold that view. You can’t go backwards and say that 30% of Evangelicals hold that view, as Evangelicals weren’t polled- _Americans_ were. That is a incorrect use of polling statistics. Of Americans 10% “think the end times are coming, therefore we don’t need to worry about global warming.” Of that 10% 26% identify as Evangelicals, thus 2.6% of Americans are Evangelicals who hold that belief. My point is , once you get down to that small of %, with a total poll of about 1000 people- anything under 3% is noise and you can’t use it to draw a conclusion. “\*Sample details and margins of error All samples are subject to some degree of sampling error—that is, statistical results obtained from a sample can be expected to differ somewhat from results that would be obtained if every member of the target population were interviewed. The margins of error for this survey, at the 95% confidence level, was plus or minus 3 percentage.” - ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/63 "2018-09-17T03:06:13Z")
Okay, now the situation has progressed from :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: to 😕 😕 :eek:. I have seldom seen on these boards a comparable example of obstinate doubling down on the ignorance. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Let us take your other example. 15% of Americans that were polled believe God Controls the climate. “…therefore humans can’t be causing global warming.” Yes. On that we are definitely agreed. Now, **DrDeth** , I want you please to look at the Data Table for the category “Gender” near the very beginning of [this page](http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Global-Warming-God-and-the-End-Times-DATA-TABLES.pdf), which contains the survey data discussed in the article. You will see that that Data Table lists “_Male_: 15%” and “_Female_: 15%”. I’m asking you this, **DrDeth** , and please think about it carefully: **do you think that those stated figures mean that 15% of the survey respondents who hold this view identify as male, and 15% of them identify as female?** If so, then here’s my follow-up question: **does it make sense to you that fully 70% of the survey respondents who hold this view identify as _neither male nor female_?** If not—and I certainly hope not—then I think you have to agree that that Data Table is telling us that **15% of male survey respondents hold that view** , not that 15% of the survey respondents who hold that view are male. And then I think it will be clear to you that the corresponding Data Table for the category “Religious Affiliation” is likewise telling us that **30% of Evangelical/Born-Again survey respondents hold that view** , not that 30% of the survey respondents who hold that view are Evangelical/Born-Again. **Whew.** Words, very uncharacteristically, fail me. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/64 "2018-09-17T03:13:48Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **Whew.** Words, very uncharacteristically, fail me. Apparently not. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/65 "2018-09-17T03:14:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Okay, now the situation has progressed from :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: to 😕 😕 :eek:. I have seldom seen on these boards a comparable example of obstinate doubling down on the ignorance. [Here’s one.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=736861) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/66 "2018-09-17T03:33:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Apparently not. 😛 So can we take it that you’ve recognized (even if you don’t quite feel up to admitting) the mistake you were making in interpreting those percentages? Because if not, I can describe plenty of other fun absurdities resulting from applying **DrDeth** Math to the figures in those Data Tables. 😃 For instance, according to **DrDeth** Math, of all the survey respondents who hold the view _“God controls the climate, therefore humans can’t be causing global warming”_: - 16% have a less than high school education, 22% have completed high school, 13% have completed some college, 11% have completed a bachelor’s degree or higher, **and apparently the remaining 38% don’t fall into any educational category whatever**. :eek: - 21% have a less than $30K household income, 13% have about 30K-60K, 14% have about 60K-100K, 15% have greater than $100K, **and apparently the remaining 37% don’t fall into any household income category whatever**. :eek: - We also get fully 55% of the respondents who hold that view being **neither** black, non-Hispanic white, nor Hispanic. Given that 15% of all Americans hold that view, we are forced to conclude that fully 8.25% of all Americans are non-black non-white non-Hispanics who believe _“God controls the climate, therefore humans can’t be causing global warming”_. That’s almost more non-black non-white non-Hispanics than are contained in the entire US population. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/67 "2018-09-17T03:51:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > So can we take it that you’ve recognized (even if you don’t quite feel up to admitting) the mistake you were making in interpreting those percentages? No that means I don’t debate people who resort to insults. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/68 "2018-09-17T04:03:56Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > [Here’s one.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=736861) If you want to call a poster out for historic threads or actions, take it to the Pit. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/69 "2018-09-17T04:07:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No that means I don’t debate people who resort to insults. :dubious: Well, as long as you don’t inflict further mathematical fallacies on this discussion I don’t really care whether or not you publicly concede they’re fallacious. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/70 "2018-09-17T04:13:19Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > If you want to call a poster out for historic threads or actions, take it to the Pit. > > [/moderating] My apologies. It won’t happen again. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/71 "2018-09-17T21:19:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No that means I don’t debate people who resort to insults. (Since this thread is already hijacked to hell-) What insults? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/72 "2018-09-17T22:23:29Z")
Well, I have definitely been insulting **DrDeth** ’s mathematical arguments, which richly deserved it. But I hope and trust I have not been personally insulting **DrDeth** himself or any other poster. If I have, of course, anybody is welcome to turn me in to the mods and I’ll take my beating. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181/73 "2018-09-20T03:25:43Z")
I just saw Bone’s note, never mind [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-going-to-end-anyway-so-why-care-about-the-environment/821181.md?page=3)