# The world is perfect? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 22, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554 "2018-06-22T02:50:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/122 "2019-10-28T01:33:26Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > In a perfect world, someone would sit you down and force you to diagram that sentence. But then I get to thinking what do they mean by perfect, or that everything is “necessary”. Because from where I sit nothing is necessary. Stuff happens but it doesn’t need to happen. It just doesn’t. That’s why I don’t think anything is necessary or perfect, it just is. The world isn’t perfect as is, it just IS. I wouldn’t know how god sees it and I doubt he does either. But trying to debate it with him seems pointless. I tried it on his website before but after they hit me with radical skepticism I didn’t know what else to do . ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/123 "2019-10-28T02:20:59Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > But part of me thinks there is some truth to it because in my experience on the forums on his website he seems sure of what he says talking about it being a “non conceptual” truth that you just have to understand and that you have to go beyond logic and that trying to use words is just the ego fighting for control. When someone says this, check your pocket to make sure your wallet is still there. Let’s say we have a conception of a perfect world. I’m not sure I buy that, but let’s say. The world being what it is, the odds of the world matches our conception of a perfect world are infinitesimally small. Not to mention that another person’s concept Given that, and given that we can change the world why not? And since other people are changing it to make it less perfect for us, that is a good enough reason to be active. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/124 "2019-10-28T17:04:26Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > What I don’t get though is how people aren’t convinced by the paragraph? Isn’t the main argument being the world not being perfect just our own judgments and opinions about it? Here’s my problem with it - a perfect world would not require you to refrain from making judgements, it would _pass_ all judgements, with flying colors. It’s true that without making judgements you can’t detect the imperfections in the world, however that doesn’t mean they’re not there, it just means you’re ignorant of them. At best, one could say that they can successfully pretend that the world is perfect via a massive and sustained campaign of self-delusion. Which might be some people’s bag, but I prefer to recognize that no, sadly, one cannot happily stroll across the freeway without a care in the world. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/125 "2019-10-28T17:21:39Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I wouldn’t know how god sees it and I doubt he does either. But trying to debate it with him seems pointless. I tried it on his website before but after they hit me with radical skepticism I didn’t know what else to do . God has a website? :eek: Link?.. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/126 "2019-10-28T21:25:03Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Here’s my problem with it - a perfect world would not require you to refrain from making judgements, it would _pass_ all judgements, with flying colors. It’s true that without making judgements you can’t detect the imperfections in the world, however that doesn’t mean they’re not there, it just means you’re ignorant of them. > > At best, one could say that they can successfully pretend that the world is perfect via a massive and sustained campaign of self-delusion. Which might be some people’s bag, but I prefer to recognize that no, sadly, one cannot happily stroll across the freeway without a care in the world. But that’s the thing, there are no imperfections just what we judge to be imperfect which isn’t the same thing. Then there is the part about the world being a singularity but that doesn’t make sense, unless you mean that everything was born of the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/127 "2019-10-28T21:26:33Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > God has a website? :eek: > > Link?.. Well it’s called [actualized.org](http://actualized.org) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/128 "2019-10-28T21:32:45Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > But that’s the thing, there are no imperfections just what we judge to be imperfect which isn’t the same thing. Here’s the thing: you can’t call something perfect without judging it. (Well, not without being confused or stupid.) Calling something perfect is a value judgement itself, which can’t honestly be made without actually judging its values. One can jam their fingers in their ears and say that they don’t hear anything wrong, and while that’s kind of silly it’s not technically wrong. But to jam your fingers in your ears and say that there’s beautiful music playing because you don’t hear anything wrong is 1) lying, and 2) idiotic. And that’s what you get if you say the world is perfect because you (for no clear reason) aren’t qualified or supposed to judge it. > [@Machinaforce](#): > > Then there is the part about the world being a singularity but that doesn’t make sense, unless you mean that everything was born of the Earth. I’ll just agree with you on “that doesn’t make sense”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/129 "2019-10-29T01:41:24Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > But that’s the thing, there are no imperfections just what we judge to be imperfect which isn’t the same thing. Explain to me how you survive. I understand how _ **I** _ survive: sometimes I visit a restaurant, and sometimes I order a sandwich; and I’ve been known to say “wow, that looks perfect” when a waiter comes through. But if a waiter ever brings me a sandwich, and then produces a black bottle with a skull-and-crossbones emblem just under big lettering that spells out POISON, and then maintains eye contact while pouring some poison all over that sandwich, and then smacks the bottom of the bottle a few times for good measure, I’d then judge that sandwich to be — um, imperfect? “Hey,” one might say, “I sure do wish you’d stopped adding stuff that sandwich a bit sooner: it _was,_ apparently, fit for human consumption; and, now, seems to me that it’s _not;_ am I right? Wasn’t it — if you will — a perfectly good sandwich: the sort that a guy might (a) pay money for and then (b) judge to be worth the price? And isn’t it now a sandwich that a reasonable guy would judge to have an imperfection?” What would _ **you** _ say? “There is no imperfection; there is only what you judge to be imperfection; I shall now shrug, and then eat, because, hey, why not?” ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/130 "2019-10-29T22:35:17Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Here’s the thing: you can’t call something perfect without judging it. (Well, not without being confused or stupid.) Calling something perfect is a value judgement itself, which can’t honestly be made without actually judging its values. > > One can jam their fingers in their ears and say that they don’t hear anything wrong, and while that’s kind of silly it’s not technically wrong. But to jam your fingers in your ears and say that there’s beautiful music playing because you don’t hear anything wrong is 1) lying, and 2) idiotic. > > And that’s what you get if you say the world is perfect because you (for no clear reason) aren’t qualified or supposed to judge it. > > I’ll just agree with you on “that doesn’t make sense”. It’s not about hearing anything wrong but more like how saying something is wrong is a judgment we make about reality and it something about reality ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/131 "2019-10-29T22:49:31Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It’s not about hearing anything wrong but more like how saying something is wrong is a judgment we make about reality and it something about reality So is saying something is _right_. Look, it’s very clear that these dudes you listen to are making a _ton_ of judgements and assessments about reality (or rather, their deluded hallucinations about reality). That’s what their blogs are full of; assertions about reality and how you should think about it. So if they tell you it’s bad to make judgements about reality they’re being lying hypocrites. Specifically lying hypocrites who use obfuscating language and don’t bother differentiating imagination and speculation from reality. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/132 "2019-10-30T15:01:43Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Well it’s called [actualized.org](http://actualized.org) What does God need with a website? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/133 "2019-10-30T16:41:04Z")
If the world was perfect, we wouldn’t have an Edit Post button. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/134 "2019-10-30T17:53:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If the world was perfect, we wouldn’t have an Edit Post button. > > Regards, > Shodan So the world becomes perfect after five minutes? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/135 "2019-10-30T18:59:56Z")
Not if you’re a moderator. They have the power to make the world perfect, but they don’t do it. Therefore I don’t believe in Mod. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/136 "2019-10-30T19:08:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not if you’re a moderator. > > They have the power to make the world perfect, but they don’t do it. Therefore I don’t believe in Mod. > > Regards, > Shodan (like, upvote) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/137 "2019-10-30T19:31:06Z")
And the Winter of Missed Content was a glitch in the Matrix. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/138 "2019-10-30T20:52:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What does God need with a website? I’m not saying he is god Im just giving the website of the guy who makes this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/139 "2019-10-30T20:55:28Z")
This is it: > **[Actualized.org - Advanced Personal Development Videos](https://www.actualized.org/)** > > Master your psychology. Over 150 hours of free in-depth videos on self-improvement, practical psychology, raising your consciousness, emotional mastery, success, nonduality, enlightnement, meditation, and more. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/140 "2019-10-30T21:55:06Z")
That was a joke based on your phrasing, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554/141 "2019-10-31T03:27:42Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > That was a joke based on your phrasing, you know. I wasn’t making a joke, I gave him the website like he asked for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-is-perfect/816554.md?page=8)