# The world revolves around smokers.. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927 "2003-12-24T23:29:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/61 "2003-12-26T04:43:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BayleDomon \* > \*\*I see where the disconnect is, I think. That 15 minutes of break time, at least for my company, is paid off-time. Strictly speaking, we work 3 hours and 45 minutes, and the other 15 minutes is a short break taken in the middle of that time. Since it’s paid time, though, it’s counted to make the total 4 hours. From what you said in the OP, it sounded like your company had a similar policy. \*\* I think that is probably her company’s policy also, BayleDomon, and she just screwed everyone out of their entitled break. I’m just glad that rostfrei isn’t my boss. I can’t stand managers who are complete dicks or bitches. ---
**Author:** ![chicksdigscars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@chicksdigscars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicksdigscars)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/62 "2003-12-26T05:07:19Z")
Where I used to be employed, for each 4 hours you worked, you got a 15-minute break. If you only worked 4 hours in one day, you would not be entitled to a break because technically if you took the break before going home, you’d have only worked 3 hours 45 minutes. I really don’t care one way or the other about the validity of second hand smoke on the general population. I know FOR MYSELF as an asthmatic, second hand smoke is like a vise grip on my lungs. What really pisses ME off is having to run past all the smokers outside on their breaks on my way into the building. It really should be illegal to smoke within 20 feet of any entrance/exit. What good does it do me to ban smoking in the building if I have to put up with it on the way in or out of the building? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/63 "2003-12-26T05:19:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chicksdigscars \* > Where I used to be employed, for each 4 hours you worked, you got a 15-minute break. If you only worked 4 hours in one day, you would not be entitled to a break because technically if you took the break before going home, you’d have only worked 3 hours 45 minutes. By that logic you would only get one break in an eight hour day. (Technically you would only have worked 7 hours 45 minutes, thus not qualifying for the second break.) The OP was being a hardass. ---
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/64 "2003-12-26T06:02:22Z")
Yeah. That’s the way I see it also, Ellis Dee. There should be a fifteen minute break within each four hour period. Otherwise, it doesn’t make sense, which you so aptly pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@Sam\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_H)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/65 "2003-12-26T06:23:24Z")
**DarkPrince** Your analogy between women taking off work so they can have children and people taking off work so they can smoke is atonshingly stupid. Children eventually grow up and contribute to society. If you ever plan on collecting a dime of social security you’d better damned well advocate that others have them. OTOH, smoking contributes nothing to society but serious disease and broken hearts. My grandfather died too young from lung cancer. I wish to god someone had denied him his smoking breaks. I also wish they would deprive a co-worker of mine of smoke breaks. She has two small children and asthma. She would be far better off if she had more incentives to kick the habit. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/66 "2003-12-26T06:47:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam H. \* > I also wish they would deprive a co-worker of mine of smoke breaks. She has two small children and asthma. She would be far better off if she had more incentives to kick the habit. Sure thing. We should also regulate her diet, and subject her to forced exercise 3 times per week. Coffee’s bad for women, what with the caffeine increasing the risk of breast cancer, so make sure she cuts that out. And sugars. They rot your teeth. If she isn’t quitting with two small children and asthma, what incentives, exactly, do you think will motivate her? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/67 "2003-12-26T08:10:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > **Wait. I don’t understand…are you folks saying that the smokers in your workplace are allowed to take breaks that you non-smokers aren’t?** Yep. Well, at least it’s what _I_ have been saying, if not in this thread then in others. When I worked outside the home, the smokers usually took more breaks, and were ALLOWED to take more breaks, than the nonsmokers. Since in most cases the managers were also smokers, they’d allow this. NOW do you understand the grudges that some nonsmokers are airing? For some reason or other, my bosses were willing to let people step outside for a smoke, but were not willing to let nonsmokers step outside or go sit down in the back for a breather. My experiences were mostly in retail, and of course most of the time the customer area was a nonsmoking zone, for staff and customers alike. Customers WERE allowed to smoke in the convenience/deli/liquor store where I worked, and they were allowed to play the slot machines if they were over 21, but were not allowed to drink alcoholic beverages, as we didn’t have the proper license for that. When my husband went through basic training in the Air Force more than 20 years ago, the recruits were allowed smoke breaks, IF they smoked. The nonsmokers got to police the area (this means that they picked up trash and generally neatened up the place). Policing the area was NOT an optiional activity, the recruits either smoked or they performed janitorial duties, several times a day. My husband started smoking in the Air Force, just so that he could have a breather during Basic. He quit smoking about 16 months ago. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/68 "2003-12-26T08:14:25Z")
Oh, and I must say, even after all that, I think that the OP was being a major bitch for not allowing her workers to take their breaks. Obviously the smoker was going through nicotine withdrawal, which is agonizing, from what I can tell. Yeah, she’d be better off not smoking, but I have to think that there’s more to the story here. I think that the OP was just throwing her power around a bit, because she doesn’t like smoking. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/69 "2003-12-26T12:59:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by saulisagenius \* > If smoking was allowed at work then this problem simply wouldn’t exist. I know someones gonna say something about passive smoking (of which no evidence exists) but thats not what really bothers you, you just don’t like smokers because for whatever reason you’re prejudiced. No, what bothers me about smoking in the workplace is that it sets off my asthma, making it physically difficult for me to breathe, causes me to consume pharmaceuticals I otherwise would not need, all of which have side effects, and vastly increase my chances of spending some time in a hospital. There there is the location of one of my favorite hobbies, where smoking can be lethal not only to the smoker, but to those around him/her if the open flame involve sets off violent chemical reactions. You want to smoke in your own home? Ok. Or your car? Ok. Or in “designated smoking areas”? Ok. But stay the fuck away from me, areas where smoking is a hazard, and don’t inflict your sick, nasty habit on anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/70 "2003-12-26T13:13:00Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by saulisagenius_ > If smoking was allowed at work then this problem simply wouldn’t exist. I know someones gonna say something about passive smoking (of which no evidence exists) but thats not what really bothers you, you just don’t like smokers because for whatever reason you’re prejudiced. I know that cigarette smoke (most in general, but tobacco in particular) makes my eyes burn and feel very dry and irritated, makes me sneeze, and makes it hard for me to breathe. Whether or not it’s going to give me cancer, it makes me miserably uncomfortable, and I’ve known enough other people that it bothered enough to justify not allowing it in the workplace. I don’t need a medical study to tell me it’s offensive and physically irritating (and impossible to ignore). I have had coworkers that seemed to be out smoking far too often, but I haven’t had any bosses that didn’t let me have equivalent breaks if I made any noise about it. ---
**Author:** ![Ryukin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Ryukin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryukin)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/71 "2003-12-26T18:04:02Z")
You ever hear of **Cecil Adams**? He wrote two columns about this topic: [Does second hand smoke cause cancer?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000602.html) [Does second hand smoke cause heart disease?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000707.html) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@Sam\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_H)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/72 "2003-12-26T18:08:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ellis Dee \* > \*\*Sure thing. We should also regulate her diet, and subject her to forced exercise 3 times per week. Coffee’s bad for women, what with the caffeine increasing the risk of breast cancer, so make sure she cuts that out. And sugars. They rot your teeth. > > If she isn’t quitting with two small children and asthma, what incentives, exactly, do you think will motivate her? \*\* You can’t possibly compare caffeine and sugar with tobacco. Sugar, and caffeine can be consumed in small amounts without long term harmful effects. You can’t say the same about tobacco. As for my friend I have no idea what will motivate her but I hate seeing my workplace encourage her to continue a habit that has as many severe consequences as smoking. Perhaps if she did indeed not get breaks from work to smoke with other smokers she might have more motivation to stop. It’s certainly not something the workplace should sanction with official “smoking breaks.” ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/73 "2003-12-26T19:44:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam H. \* > \*\*You can’t possibly compare caffeine and sugar with tobacco. Sugar, and caffeine can be consumed in small amounts without long term harmful effects. You can’t say the same about tobacco. \*\* The point is that some of us do not want government to legislate what is good for us. By all means, legislate to prevent me from hurting other people, but I should be allowed to do what I want to myself. And I don’t smoke. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/74 "2003-12-26T20:45:08Z")
Exactly, **amarone**. **Sam** , what you’re suggesting is the same general concept as that which **Ellis** described. Basically, deciding what’s good for someone _for_ them and using your authority as their employer to impose your will upon their personal habits. Overstepping boundries, if you ask me. And doesn’t nicotine in small quanitites improve memory? I remember reading something about that on the boards. Either way, if you’ve got a bunch of smokers working for you and you deny them breaks (that they’re entitled to by law), you’re asking for trouble. Do you _really_ want a bunch of employees going through nicotine withdrawls in the middle of a shift? Also, you mentioned not allowing her to smoke with the other smokers. What, are you her dad or something? You’d seriously consider giving other smokers breaks but _not_ her? Because _you_ think she should quit? Oy. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@Sam\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_H)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/75 "2003-12-26T20:47:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amarone \* > \*\*The point is that some of us do not want government to legislate what is good for us. By all means, legislate to prevent me from hurting other people, but I should be allowed to do what I want to myself. And I don’t smoke. \*\* But government does that all time. Would you like to get rid meat inspectors? Minimal building codes? Seat belts? Mandatory school attendance? As for the issue in the OP I think all workers **should** get breaks. I don’t think smoking should be allowed at work unless the smoker should also enrolls in a quit smoking program. Smoking does hurt others because at a very minimum it raises medical premiums and life insurance rates for everyone else. Why should I have to shell out extra medical expenses to subsidize a habit that has no redeeming value? As for the argument that smokers they aren’t just hurting themselves that isn’t even remotely true. They’re hurting others as well. My mother still misses her father who she lost when she was in her thirties. Furthermore smokers congregate outside my workplace when they smoke so I have no choice but to come into contact with cigarrettes, something I’d rather completely avoid. ---
**Author:** ![Joan\_of\_Argghh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58956e/32.png) [@Joan\_of\_Argghh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joan_of_Argghh)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/76 "2003-12-26T20:54:20Z")
Long before there were scientific studies and health worries about smoking, smokers used to be sensitive to the idea that perhaps their habit was offensive to others. Not harmful, just offensive. Solely on the basis of good manners, smokers used to have smoking rooms, retired to the parlour, wore smoking jackets to keep their clothes from smelling awful, and, from everything I can tell, used to ask, “Do you mind if I smoke?” What a great group of folks smokers used to be. There was no social stigma on smoking, just a realization that others needn’t be subjected to the indignities of taking on another’s smell, and coughing and hacking like the smoker did the first time they took a drag. Now they wonder what all the fuss is about. Smokers used to give others consideration, but now most are demanding status as an abused minority, demanding to indulge their habit whenever/wherever. The vitriol and backlash they are feeling is what has been latent through many years of silent suffering by non-smokers. (And, I haven’t met a smoker yet who doesn’t toss their glowing butt out the car window, regardless of how tinder-dry the area vegetation may be. Okay, maybe YOU don’t, but MOST do.) They’ve become a whiney, selfish, demanding lot. Actually, I blame the first passive person who ever said, in response to the polite inquiry about allowing someone to smoke, “sure, I don’t mind,” when really, they DID mind. But they were probably just trying to be nice. Nice. Remember “nice”? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@Sam\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_H)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/77 "2003-12-26T21:01:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\*Exactly, **amarone**. **Sam** , what you’re suggesting is the same general concept as that which **Ellis** described. Basically, deciding what’s good for someone _for_ them and using your authority as their employer to impose your will upon their personal habits. Overstepping boundries, if you ask me. \*\* > > Again, people do that all the time. I get breaks at work. If I don’t take them my employer forces me to take them for my own good because they don’t think I will be a good worker without a break. > > \*\*And doesn’t nicotine in small quanitites improve memory? I remember reading something about that on the boards. Either way, if you’ve got a bunch of smokers working for you and you deny them breaks (that they’re entitled to by law), you’re asking for trouble. Do you _really_ want a bunch of employees going through nicotine withdrawls in the middle of a shift? \*\* > > It’s not about denying breaks. You can take breaks. You just shouldn’t take them to endulge in a filthy habit that imposes serious costs on everyone else. As I said, I think employees should get smoking breaks only if they agree to enroll in a quit smoking program. Otherwise I fail to see why **anyone** let alone an employer who has to bear the cost someone’s medical bills should help people continue to smoke. > > **Also, you mentioned not allowing her to smoke with the other smokers. What, are you her dad or something? You’d seriously consider giving other smokers breaks but _not_ her? Because _you_ think she should quit?** > > Boy are you misinterpretating my words, let alone my reasonable concern for a co-worker I really and truly like. I don’t think anyone should smoke. Period. I get upset when I see her smoking because she has small children and a serious disease. I get slightly less upset when I see her two fellow smokers because they’re in the seventies whereas she’s a young woman. > > As for \* my \* thinking she should quit, I hate to break it to but the entire world pretty much agrees with me on that one, including her own mother and the rest of our co-workers. Our office policy encourages her to smoke when it should instead encourage her to quit. It’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/78 "2003-12-26T21:05:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam H. \* > \*\* I don’t think smoking should be allowed at work unless the smoker should also enrolls in a quit smoking program. \*\* This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read on these boards. There are not enough rolleye smilies in the world. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/79 "2003-12-26T21:08:42Z")
**Sam** , you’re basically advocating forcing smokers to quit. Do you also advocate forcing people who drink to quit? Smoking is legal. Until it is made illegal, you have no right try to force your will upon another. Period. End of story. Your attitude disgusts me. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927/80 "2003-12-26T21:13:29Z")
Oh, I forgot to add, **Sam** , you examples of forced breaks and seatbelts ect., are examples of people enforcing _laws_. Yeah, the laws were put into affect for people’s own goods, but they are _laws_ nonetheless. Smoking on break at work is not against the _law_. Therefore, you refusing to allow an employee to do so because you don’t want them smoking is self-rightious and ridiculously arrogant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-world-revolves-around-smokers/220927.md?page=5)