# The WoW "Burning Dog Legion" (Cairne/Horde) 10-man Raid List. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 15, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561 "2010-03-15T17:36:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/61 "2010-03-23T15:42:06Z")
Yeah, I got caught in a void zone as well. Wouldn’t have happened a second time. I definitely want to go again next Monday. I’ll setup another event. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/62 "2010-03-23T15:47:27Z")
_You can dance if you want to We can leave your friends behind 'Cause your friends don’t dance and if they don’t dance Well they’re no longer living_ Heigan was a lot of fun, even though he was wipetastic. I felt so proud of myself when I got the safety dance rhythm down and kept up with Reins, our MT. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Headrush042](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Headrush042](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Headrush042)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/63 "2010-03-23T16:30:12Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > The voids on KT are a huge pain–and a great lesson in raid awareness. 😃 You can’t afford to get dialed in to what you’re doing on a fight where failing to move at the right time (wrong time?) means you get insta-gibbed. (Especially annoying if you’re an add tank, since the bugs love to stack right on top of you, which makes spotting the voids… interesting.) > > Sounds like you guys are in a great position to knock it out of the park next week! Yep! I was tanking the bugs and had my camera spun so I could see the rest of the raid while I facerolled my 69696 away… haha ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/64 "2010-03-23T19:30:17Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Heigan was a lot of fun, even though he was wipetastic. I actually kind of miss Heigan. It’s funny… a lot of Naxx fights are so gimmicky, that they sort of fall under the heading of “really hard until they’re suddenly not.” There’s a big steep learning curve, but once you’ve got the trick of the fight, it’s easy as pie. > [@Headrush042](#): > > I was tanking the bugs and had my camera spun so I could see the rest of the raid while I facerolled my 69696 away… haha 😃 If I had a dollar for every time I died to a void while add tanking on KT, I would have… several dollars. I found I often had to pull my camera almost all the way in to be able to see my feet at all. On the plus side, the only threat you have to worry about overcoming is healing aggro, so you can pretty much just keep your buffs and debuffs up and otherwise focus on making sure you’re not standing in anything bad. Major bonus with 10-man, too, is that you don’t have to worry about MCs. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/65 "2010-03-23T22:04:17Z")
First off, my apologies for showing up at the last minute and bumping off another guildie (was it you, **Rasz**?). I was rushing through dinner (cooking, eating and cleaning) to get done by 7pm Pacific and now I know it should have been for 6:45 instead. Other than that, that was new and fun to me, even though I died a little more than the average guildie. The instructions that Headrush gave us were great, but my execution of those instructions were a less than perfect. Those bastards Heigan and Kel’Thuzad will pay for it next week! ---
**Author:** ![Headrush042](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Headrush042](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Headrush042)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/66 "2010-03-24T03:37:08Z")
That wasn’t me giving instructions, that was Reins (I don’t know his doper name). I play Ama. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/67 "2010-03-24T03:50:30Z")
> [@Headrush042](#): > > That wasn’t me giving instructions, that was Reins (I don’t know his doper name). I play Ama. I think Reins is identified in his Player Notes field in the guild panel as a lurker. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/68 "2010-03-24T13:50:48Z")
It was too bad someone had to sit out, but on the other hand, that’s a nice problem to have. The purpose of these low-level raid runs is really to 1) learn to raid with each other, 2) gear up the guildies who need it. Next week, I’d say that Rasz automatically gets a spot if he wants it, and if we have more than 10 show up anyone willing to sit out can /roll like we did last week for a spot (as long as we can maintain our tank/healing/dps ratio). ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/69 "2010-03-24T14:10:51Z")
Oh, and for anybody who’s new to these raids, or even just needs a refresher: personally, I looooooooove [Tankspot’s videos](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=tankspot+site%3Ayoutube.com). I always find it very useful to actually see the fight before I get in there, and they do a very good job of explaining the fight mechanics. (Though the strategy you use may differ somewhat.) ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/70 "2010-03-24T15:32:53Z")
Oh and if you don’t have it already, you should probably also download the addon: Deadly Boss Mods. It gives a lot of useful information during boss fights. [DBM](http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/deadly-boss-mods.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/71 "2010-03-24T15:40:43Z")
Just out of curiosity, were we doing Naxx on Regular or Heroic difficulty? If that was Regular, and it still took that long to kill a boss even with almost everybody majorly overgeared … :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/72 "2010-03-24T16:08:50Z")
> [@FlightlessBird](#): > > Oh and if you don’t have it already, you should probably also download the addon: Deadly Boss Mods. It gives a lot of useful information during boss fights. Really, as long as you have any bossmod, it doesn’t matter which one. The big three are [Deadly Boss Mods](http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/deadly-boss-mods.aspx)(DBM), [BigWigs Bossmods](http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/big-wigs.aspx)(Bigwigs or BW), and [Deus Vox Encounters](http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/deus-vox-encounters.aspx)(DXE). They all have their pros and cons; personally, I’ve used all three, and I like DXE best. They all work fine out of the box, but DXE is absolutely the most customizable. So if you like being able to move all your bars and alerts independently, changing what sounds are associated with what abilities/events, turning alerts on and off for abilities/events and tweaking what those alerts consist of… All that fun stuff. Plus, you get extra features like arrows on some fights telling you which way to run. > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Just out of curiosity, were we doing Naxx on Regular or Heroic difficulty? If that was Regular, and it still took that long to kill a boss even with almost everybody majorly overgeared … :eek: Pre-ToC, there’s no separate setting for raids. “Hard modes” are self-imposed by the way you do a fight. For Naxx, there weren’t any hard modes as such (i.e., with better loot, like in Ulduar)–just extra achievements (e.g., killing Thad without crossing charges at all). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/73 "2010-03-24T16:09:20Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Just out of curiosity, were we doing Naxx on Regular or Heroic difficulty? If that was Regular, and it still took that long to kill a boss even with almost everybody majorly overgeared … :eek: Raids don’t have regular and heroic modes per se like regular dungeons do. Well, Icecrown Citadel does, but that’s just that raid. Raids are either 10-man or 25-man, and some of them have additional constraints you can trigger to make the fights harder. To simplify things, though, you can consider 10-man the equivalent of regular and 25-man the equivalent of heroic for most raids and we were on 10-man. And you know yourself that everyone _wasn’t_ necessarily overgeared. You said yourself you had mostly blues and quest greens since you hadn’t run heroics before we did Naxx. Mind, that’s not such a big deal; Naxx doesn’t require _that_ much in the way of gear. The bigger issues we had came from most of us not knowing the fights; if you don’t know what to kill first or where to run, you _will_ die, as we saw on Heigan and his Floor of Death. And yeah, Kel’Thuzad took a long time, but remember, he’s the end boss of a giant raid instance and lore-wise he’s Arthas’s right-hand lich. We only did two wings before taking him on, and when the raid was originally designed people were expected to clear all four wings before going after Kel. That’s _intended_ to be an epic fight. Finally, we did amazingly well, considering most of us didn’t know the fights. Raids are intended to be these walls you throw yourself at over and over again for potentially months at a time before you eventually collect enough gear and learn the tricks to the point where you can finally emerge victorious. We cleared two wings, killed Sapphiron, and got Kel down to half life on our first night. In two hours. _That_ is what being overgeared and having raid leaders who know the raid inside and out gets us. Sure, we wiped three or four times on Heigan, but remember, that’s _nothing_ compared to when this was endgame content. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/74 "2010-03-24T16:38:12Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Raids don’t have regular and heroic modes per se like regular dungeons do. Well, Icecrown Citadel does, but that’s just that raid. Raids are either 10-man or 25-man, and some of them have additional constraints you can trigger to make the fights harder. ICC has Heroic modes. You just toggle them boss by boss instead of having four separate lockouts. Naxx: No Heroic modes. No extra hardmode loot. Sarth: No Heroic modes. Extra hardmode loot, based on how many drakes are up when you engage him. Maly: No Heroic modes. I can’t remember if the six-minute achievement gets you anything extra. Ulduar: No Heroic modes. Hardmodes are triggered by the way you engage the boss (e.g., pressing the big red button on Mimiron, killing Hodir before he smashes his extra box o’ loot, or engaging Freya while one or more of her Keepers is still alive). ToC: Heroic modes. There are separate lockouts for 10, 10-Heroic, 25, and 25-Heroic; you either do all bosses on normal or all on Heroic. ICC: Heroic modes. These are toggled on a per-boss basis. There are only two lockouts again: 10 and 25. > [@](#): > > To simplify things, though, you can consider 10-man the equivalent of regular and 25-man the equivalent of heroic for most raids and we were on 10-man. :dubious: That’s _simpler_, sure, but it’s also dead wrong, IMO. 25-man versions will often have different, harder mechanics than 10-mans (e.g., MCs in 25 but none in 10), but that’s because of balance and synergy. A 25-man normal version of a 10-man normal fight really isn’t at all comparable to a 10-man Heroic version of a 10-man normal fight. > [@](#): > > Finally, we did amazingly well, considering most of us didn’t know the fights. \*This \*is the most important point to take away. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/75 "2010-03-24T16:49:26Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > :dubious: That’s _simpler_, sure, but it’s also dead wrong, IMO. 25-man versions will often have different, harder mechanics than 10-mans (e.g., MCs in 25 but none in 10), but that’s because of balance and synergy. A 25-man normal version of a 10-man normal fight really isn’t at all comparable to a 10-man Heroic version of a 10-man normal fight. Go figure. Usually when I look at the differences in boss strategy between 10-man and 25-man, it’s purely a matter of numbers. Oh well. I knew you’d be along to correct me regardless. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/76 "2010-03-24T17:59:23Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > And you know yourself that everyone _wasn’t_ necessarily overgeared. You said yourself you had mostly blues and quest greens since you hadn’t run heroics before we did Naxx. I was the only one with a GearScore lower than 3000 (per the addon), and the next lowest GS in the raid was \<4k. Everybody else was \>4k with a couple \>5k. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/77 "2010-03-24T18:11:26Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I was the only one with a GearScore lower than 3000 (per the addon), and the next lowest GS in the raid was \<4k. Everybody else was \>4k with a couple \>5k. GearScore will rot your brain, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/78 "2010-03-24T20:16:00Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Go figure. Usually when I look at the differences in boss strategy between 10-man and 25-man, it’s purely a matter of numbers. > > Oh well. I knew you’d be along to correct me regardless. 😉 Are you guys married? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/79 "2010-03-24T20:33:13Z")
> [@Headrush042](#): > > That wasn’t me giving instructions, that was Reins (I don’t know his doper name). I play Ama. Ok…I wasn’t sure, so I took a stab at it…my Vent would display some of the players names when they were talking, but you and Reins didn’t have a display for some reason. I’m kinda new to this Vent stuff…I heard all of you fine, but I guess my mic volume was too low and I have to spend more time figuring that out and maybe find out why some players were listed and other weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561/80 "2010-03-24T20:51:56Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Oh well. I knew you’d be along to correct me regardless. :tips hat: Happy to oblige. 😃 > [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Are you guys married? If I were married to every man I routinely correct, that would be one hell of a polyandrous relationship. … Actually, now that you mention, that sounds like it might be a possibility worth exploring. > [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > my Vent would display some of the players names when they were talking, but you and Reins didn’t have a display for some reason. When someone is talking, you should get the little speaker icon next to their name lighting up green, if that helps. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-wow-burning-dog-legion-cairne-horde-10-man-raid-list/532561.md?page=5)