# The Young Pope on HBO. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 18, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479 "2017-01-18T17:10:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/41 "2017-02-09T18:25:37Z")
Yes, it’s been renewed for a second season: [The Young Pope - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Young_Pope) What a strange, strange show. I keep thinking I’ll stop, it’s so baffling, contradictory and even sometimes surreally nonsensical, but damned if I don’t keep watching. Favorite recent bits: - The Pope donning robes, gloves, tiara and rings to the tune of “I’m Sexy and I Know It” - The stigmata guy’s neon-lit vision of the Pope visiting him in his house - The Pope, startled, dropping the baby on the hospital bed - The Pope and the Italian Prime Minister’s icily-polite minuet - Cardinal Voiello taking the nun’s cellphone and later setting her straight on the African tyrant The Pope’s coat of arms (visible sometimes on the rug in his office) is reminiscent of Pius XII’s ([https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Pius\_12\_coa.svg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Pius_12_coa.svg)) and Paul VI’s ([https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Coat\_of\_Arms\_of\_Pope\_Paul\_VI.svg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Coat_of_Arms_of_Pope_Paul_VI.svg)). And what’s with the painting (by Rembrandt?) of the hairy man nursing a baby? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/42 "2017-02-09T18:35:39Z")
…And WTF is it with the kangaroo?! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/43 "2017-02-09T19:00:45Z")
Watched the first two episodes and gave up on it. It’s a nice looking show but profoundly irritating in being so mysterioso from the start. It never established why I should care about anything enough to stick around. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/44 "2017-02-09T19:03:37Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > And what’s with the painting (by Rembrandt?) of the hairy man nursing a baby? I was wondering about that. Is that a real painting? (Many of the paintings shown in the opening credits are real, as is the Venus of Willendorf, although it’s actually in an Austrian museum.) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/45 "2017-02-09T22:19:11Z")
A Google search led me to an answer; the painting is called La mujer barbuda or Magdalena Ventura or The Bearded Woman, by Jusepe de Ribera. [Article from The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2016/dec/08/bearded-woman-of-abruzzi-magdalena-ventura-jusepe-de-ribera-gender-hero) about it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/46 "2017-02-10T05:01:39Z")
Great find - thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/47 "2017-02-15T18:56:44Z")
Well, I watched it all the way through to the end of the season. Parts of it I really liked; parts of it left me cold. I guess the Pope _is_ a saint under Catholic teachings, for all his flaws, with three miracles now apparently attributable to him: healing the mom of his childhood classmate, removing Esther’s sterility, and smiting Sr. Antonia, the crooked nun in Africa. Not sure what was up with the fat woman in bed in NYC. An odd tangent. Nice callback for the woman (his California crush?) juggling for her two kids, just as the Pope had earlier juggled in the Vatican gardens. The village of the Blessed Juana looked a lot like the Mexican village in _Westworld_. I like the Cardinal Gutierrez character a lot - alcoholic, until-now-closeted, deeply conflicted, but strong enough to argue with the Pope and urge a more humane policy upon him. Loved the scene with the various historic Popes appearing to Pius XIII in a dream, and him being unimpressed by their “banal” advice. Here’s more on Brodsky, the Nobel laureate mentioned by the Pope for having written, “Beauty at low temperatures is beauty”: [Joseph Brodsky - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Brodsky) Why was the Pope in a regular priest’s street clothes to say goodbye to Sr. Mary? I noticed his white robes in Venice lacked all the gold embroidery on the front, too. I’ve lost count of how many times the Pope has said he doesn’t believe in God, or hasn’t contradicted others who say he’s an atheist. But then nothing is done with this explosive information; we just move on to the next scene. Very puzzling. And he just seems like a jerk when he tells a mean “joke” to the schoolkids, making some of them cry; backs out of a promised visit to Guatemala for no particular reason; and won’t turn around to bless the eager, hopeful people in the fast-food restaurant. Cardinal Voiello plotted to oust the Pope, tells him he killed the aspiring priest who jumped off St. Peter’s Basilica, and later tells him his parents repudiated him by leaving him. Yeesh. Why does the Pope even keep him around anymore? Exiling Archbishop Kurtwell to Alaska would not assuage all those who thought he ought to be prosecuted for his pedophilia and abuse of power in NYC. I guess we’re meant to think that the Pope’s elderly-hippy parents are in the crowd in Venice, and turn away in disappointment. Nice touch to have various characters earlier shown this season (the American writer, the druglord and his wife, the hooker in the Rome hotel, etc.) listening to his speech. But the speech shouldn’t have made the crowd react the way they did, I thought. I also would’ve expected a huge media contingent, a platoon of photographers, banks of TV cameras, etc., for his first public appearance in which he could be clearly seen by the public. A very strange show; still thinking it through. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/48 "2017-02-15T19:43:32Z")
I think the crowd reacted as it did because Pope Pius XIII decided to tell a happy hopeful message, as opposed to his angry messages earlier on in his Papacy. I thought it was a beautifully shot show, but very strange and didn’t really go anywhere. And yes, the Pope definitely would be a Saint… and we now know why Sister Mary was so adamant about that. Of course, I think as the show mentions, saints aren’t perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/49 "2017-02-16T16:51:20Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I think the crowd reacted as it did because Pope Pius XIII decided to tell a happy hopeful message, as opposed to his angry messages earlier on in his Papacy… Agreed, but what he said would not, in the real world, lead to rapturous applause at the moment that it did. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/50 "2017-02-16T17:15:38Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Agreed, but what he said would not, in the real world, lead to rapturous applause at the moment that it did. I disagree. I think it would especially after months of people hearing despair from their Pope, to hear he is promoting a hopeful message would be shockingly happy… I’d applaud. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/51 "2017-02-16T21:06:32Z")
I agree that it was the tone of the message that elicited the response from the crowd. The speech itself was bad. Poorly thought out, poorly written, droning and silly. The pope certainly has had better speeches in the show. Was disappointed. Overall though, I was fascinated by the characters, enjoyed watching them interacting with each other a lot. The show is definitely different from most other things I watch. What with the whole, no real plot to it. I felt like I was watching a soap opera set in the vatican, except with good acting and writing. Actually, I think soap operas tend to have more plot than this show 😉 Will tune in for Season 2. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/52 "2017-02-16T22:36:50Z")
Supposedly the show will get a [second season](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/young-pope-producers-confirm-second-940019) so I’m not sure what we’re supposed to make of the ending of this one. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/53 "2017-02-17T17:43:54Z")
I really liked it. Well acted and visually stunning. Compelling characters. I catch myself still thinking about it from time to time. One of the things that bother me, other than the inexplicable kangaroo, is his abrupt 180 from the severe and ultra-conservative pope through episode 8 to a suddenly more open minded one in episode 9. The speech was another strange thing. He never went to Guatemala to hear the stories about the young girl, he seemed skeptical about the miracles she was reporter to perform, yet that’s who he chose to speak about in the end. Odd choice. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/54 "2017-02-18T00:18:41Z")
I’ve been trying to place Sebastian Roché, the actor who plays Cardinal Marivaux (the guy who told the Pope about the Blessed Juana and tried to convince him to go to Guatemala). None of his movie credits rang a bell. Then it hit me - awhile back, I saw him play George Washington in the short film they show at the visitor’s center at Mount Vernon. > **[Sebastian Roché](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Roch%C3%A9)** > > Sebastian Roché (born 4 August 1964) is a French-American actor. He is known for his roles as Kurt Mendel in Odyssey 5, Jerry Jacks in General Hospital, Thomas Jerome Newton in Fringe, Balthazar in Supernatural, Mikael in both The Vampire Diaries and The Originals, and Reichsminister Martin Heusmann in The Man in the High Castle. > Roché has appeared in the films The Last of the Mohicans (1992); The Peacemaker (1997); 15 Minutes (2001); Sorry, Haters (2005); The Namesake (2006); New York City Se... > **[Amazon.com: George Washington, "We Fight to be Free" : Movies & TV](https://www.amazon.com/George-Washington-We-Fight-Free/dp/B001W2GM20)** > > Find George Washington, "We Fight to be Free" at Amazon.com Movies & TV, home of thousands of titles on DVD and Blu-ray. > > **[A Visceral Film's Deep-Seated Effect](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/23/AR2006102301266.html)** > > Search movie listings, reviews and locations from the Washington Post. Features national listings for movies and movie guide. Visit http://www.washingtonpost.com/movies today. ---
**Author:** ![OHS201](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6de8d8/32.png) [@OHS201](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OHS201)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/55 "2017-02-19T17:16:27Z")
I found too much conflicting directions, which left me like “Huh?” - The Pope says, often, that he doesn’t believe in God; but he prays “God, I need to talk to you now” and gets responses. (Does he say the same line for Esther? Don’t remember.) - He’s ultra-strict throwback, until he suddenly loosens up – at least on homosexual priests - He quotes Old Testament way more than New Testament. How can he quote “eye for an eye” to Voiello? - His boyhood friend is punished for having sex with a married woman. This seems very much like an Old Testament judgement. Does the show FAVOR the harsher eye-for-eye approach? - He’s seen as a Christ figure (the way he spreads his arms when praying for miracles, etc) but at the same time, he’s shown as a really nasty unpleasant guy (push the button to get rid of boring people, mean joke on the children, etc.) - The nonsense about the actor couple playing his parents was just silly. Sister Mary was generally so understanding, how could she think he would fall for such an idiotic ploy? The acting was fabulous, the characters all believable, the story was compelling but I found the lack of clarity/direction annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/56 "2017-02-19T18:44:18Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > Once the new credit sequence rolled out, culminating in a reenactment of Cattelan’s awesome [sculpture](http://codylee.co/2014/06/maurizio-cattelan-la-nona-ora/), I resolved to keep watching no matter how batshit or boring this ends up being. I’m about to jump out of this thread for fear of being spoiled. But it probably won’t take me long to power through the remaining episodes & return. Give me excellent art direction, a bit of interesting music & some bravura performances. Plot? I’ll see how it develops. _Architectural Digest_ has [an article](http://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/the-young-pope-filming-locations) on locations for the series since filming is forbidden in the Vatican. Sets built at Cinecittà Studios include a full-size “Sistine Chapel.” But we are also seeing many real buildings & gardens in Rome & elsewhere… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/57 "2017-02-19T19:25:25Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > …_Architectural Digest_ has [an article](http://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/the-young-pope-filming-locations) on locations for the series since filming is forbidden in the Vatican. Sets built at Cinecittà Studios include a full-size “Sistine Chapel.” But we are also seeing many real buildings & gardens in Rome & elsewhere… Very interesting - thanks! I remember _Gangs of New York_, including 1860s NYC street scenes, was filmed at Cinecittà too. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2017, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/58 "2017-02-28T05:34:31Z")
I stumbled across this Wiki article about one of the Vatican paintings that appears in the opening credits: [Delivery of the Keys (Perugino) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delivery_of_the_Keys_(Perugino)). Check out the “Legend” section. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/59 "2017-03-21T15:52:55Z")
> **[Conclave: A novel: Harris, Robert: 9781101972908: Amazon.com: Books](https://www.amazon.com/Conclave-novel-Robert-Harris/dp/1101972904)** > > Conclave: A novel \[Harris, Robert\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Conclave: A novel Just finished Robert Harris’s novel _Conclave_. A very interesting, well-researched but occasionally farfetched look at the near-future election of a new Pope, with plenty of Vatican intrigue, secrets and political maneuvering (it also has a whopper of an ending). Any fan of _The Young Pope_ will want to check it out. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2020, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479/60 "2020-02-02T04:32:18Z")
Bumped. I’ve seen the first three episodes of the season, now renamed _The New Pope_ (will S3, if there is one, follow the same model and be _The [Something else] Pope_?). I liked seeing the wheeling and dealing that went into the papal conclave. Not convinced they’d turn to an effete British aristocratic cardinal who wears mascara as the “only” next choice for pontiff, though. I laughed when the PR gal said the cardinal reminded her of the actor John Malkovitch. “He never did anything for me,” said John Malkovitch with a shrug. Anyone else watching? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-young-pope-on-hbo/777479.md?page=4)