# The Younger Gens Bush: Thank God for Family Values **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 28, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813 "2005-09-28T05:50:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/61 "2005-09-28T17:33:58Z")
Hee! The ads at the bottom of this page now all have the word “Criminal” in them. Thanks Google. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![PinkMarabou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@PinkMarabou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PinkMarabou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/62 "2005-09-28T17:41:57Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > Hee! The ads at the bottom of this page now all have the word “Criminal” in them. Thanks Google. 😃 I see them as detox and drug testing ads. This google thing is funny. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/63 "2005-09-28T17:52:54Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > As long as we’re slagging Bushes with run-ins with the law, there’s Laura’s [killing](http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp) a guy with her car Any idea why no charges were filed? She ran a stop sign and killed a guy and nothing criminal occurred? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/64 "2005-09-28T18:16:17Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Third, the truthfulness or falsity, of a datum is exactly what would be contended in a trial. A person making such a defamatory statement of fact, and indicted for such, would be required to prove that it is indeed a fact in open court. As always, the burden of proof is upon the person making the claim. So, if no evidence is forthcoming which supports a deliberately malicious and defamatory statement, the charge of slander (or libel - whatever) is entirely appropriate. Nope. For public figures, the rule is different. It’s not enough to prove the allegation is false. To win a defamation claim (libel or slander) as a public figure, you must show that the statement was false, AND that the person making the statement knew it was false, or that the person published it with actual malice, not caring if it was false or true. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/65 "2005-09-28T18:20:42Z")
**Bricker,** any idea why Laura Welch was not charged with a criminal offense for running a stop sign and causing a wreck that killed someone? Was that normal in Texas back then? Surely a criminal charge is SOP everywhere now, is it not? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/66 "2005-09-28T18:24:08Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Ah well, no real point here other than I hate Bushes. Then shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/67 "2005-09-28T18:27:09Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Prescott doesn’t technically have a criminal record, I withdraw it. However, the fact that he stalked an ex-girlfriend, broke into her house and vandalized her father’s property is not debatable- it happened, it was witnessed, and had the criminal record if the family had pressed charges he’d have had a criminal record. Well, the purpose of a trial is to determine the facts. Of course, a criminal trial is weighted heavily in favor of the accused: a jury can believe he probably committed the acts, and yet vote to acquit if the evidence doesn’t rise to the level of “beyond a reasonable doubt.” But with absolutely no fact-finding process at all, I have no idea how you reach the level of confidence you display. Sure, he was accused, and there are witnesses that would have presumably offered some testimony inimical to his cause. But they never actually testified under oath; more importantly, their stories were never tested by cross-examination. I have no idea precisely what these witnesses would say. It’s possible, from what I know, that the ex-girfriend invented the stalking and got her friends together to accuse him. I simply don’t know. The fact that he was never even charged with the crime means that there was never any sort of official determination that the evidence reached a level of probable cause. Of course, it could also be that he was guilty as sin. My point is that no conclusion at all can be reached on the evidence presented. It’s simply not enough for any meaningful comment. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/68 "2005-09-28T18:28:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nope. For public figures, the rule is different. It’s not enough to prove the allegation is false. To win a defamation claim (libel or slander) as a public figure, you must show that the statement was false, AND that the person making the statement knew it was false, or that the person published it with actual malice, not caring if it was false or true. Neurotik corrected my understanding of the criteria earlier. But thank you. > [@DtC](#): > > You’re confusing physical dependancy with addiction. They’re two different things. So I am. The difference seems a little subtle to me, but I have no cause to doubt your clarifications. Thanks to you to. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/69 "2005-09-28T18:29:23Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Then shut the fuck up. And then we got thinking, reasoning, thoughtful conservatives such as yourself that make even the most wacko leftist seem like Mr. Rogers. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/70 "2005-09-28T18:33:50Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > **Bricker,** any idea why Laura Welch was not charged with a criminal offense for running a stop sign and causing a wreck that killed someone? Was that normal in Texas back then? Surely a criminal charge is SOP everywhere now, is it not? Absolutely not. A traffic accident in which someone dies does not typically garner criminal charges unless there is some factor of gross recklessness involved. Such gross recklessness may include highly excessive speed, racing, or - most common - impairment as a result of drugs or alcohol. When it’s caused by nothing more than honest (although negligent) momentary inattention, a criminal charge would be unlikely today in any state. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/71 "2005-09-28T19:47:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Absolutely not. > > A traffic accident in which someone dies does not typically garner criminal charges unless there is some factor of gross recklessness involved. Such gross recklessness may include highly excessive speed, racing, or - most common - impairment as a result of drugs or alcohol. When it’s caused by nothing more than honest (although negligent) momentary inattention, a criminal charge would be unlikely today in any state. Well, shut my mouth. Thanks for the response. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/72 "2005-09-28T22:03:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nope. For public figures, the rule is different. It’s not enough to prove the allegation is false. To win a defamation claim (libel or slander) as a public figure, you must show that the statement was false, AND that the person making the statement knew it was false, or that the person published it with actual malice, not caring if it was false or true. Don’t they also have to prove damages as well? I seem to remember that this is why most tabloids aren’t sued- it’s difficult to prove that you lost money or reputation over something. (Since Carol Burnett was the daughter of alcoholic parents and served on organizations to assist alcoholics and their families, the _Enquirer_ claiming she was drunk and disorderly was reasonably provable as damaging to her, hence the verdict in her favor, but she was only able to fight it because she was rich enough to not have to worry about legal bills.) ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/73 "2005-09-28T22:53:43Z")
I can’t believe you all are equating MIPs to a failure as a parent. I’ve had similar problems and I don’t think anyone considers me a mistake on my mother’s part. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/74 "2005-09-28T23:04:28Z")
We’re not. The Republicans constantly tout their party as having a “Family Values Platform\*” Several of them have been known to state that our young people’s future is in jeopardy because the evil liberals are so lax in their morals, and are thus raising a nation of morally corrupt demon spawn. (I paraphrase. Still.) \*BTW, who the FUCK came up with this? Family fucking VALUES? Who is against family? It’s a concept based on nothing! It’s like saying “Support our troops!” Well, dammit, who doesn’t? Do they really think we want our guys over there dying? K. Sorry, rant over. It’s just a stupid, stupid catch phrase. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/75 "2005-09-28T23:08:07Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > I can’t believe you all are equating MIPs to a failure as a parent. I’ve had similar problems and I don’t think anyone considers me a mistake on my mother’s part. MIPs? Translate, please. It’s been a long day, and I’m afraid I’m not understanding the acronym. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/76 "2005-09-28T23:14:23Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > MIPs? > > Translate, please. It’s been a long day, and I’m afraid I’m not understanding the acronym. I wondered also and went to the [acronym finder site](http://www.acronymfinder.com/). Aha! it means [minors in possession](http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?acronym=mip&String=exact&page=3). Although there’s a whole slew of other possibilities I found intriguing, like “male iron pipe” or “Med-I-Pant.” ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/77 "2005-09-28T23:15:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > MIPs? > > Translate, please. It’s been a long day, and I’m afraid I’m not understanding the acronym. Minor In Possession (of alcohol). **Maureen** I have to say that although that may be the case with vocal, mainstream righties, I know quite a few Catholic conservatives that don’t consider sex/drugs/rock&roll to be horrible things when done responsibly. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/78 "2005-09-28T23:15:15Z")
“Minor In Possession?” ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/79 "2005-09-28T23:22:23Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > “male iron pipe” Now you’re just shamelessly trying to influence the Google ads. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/80 "2005-09-28T23:36:17Z")
> [@BabaBooey](#): > > I can’t believe you all are equating MIPs to a failure as a parent. I’ve had similar problems and I don’t think anyone considers me a mistake on my mother’s part. I think we are just holding the Bushes to a higher standard. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813.md?page=5)