# The Younger Gens Bush: Thank God for Family Values **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 28, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813 "2005-09-28T05:50:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/141 "2005-09-30T04:01:23Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > No. They’re clear indications to someone who has been in the position of recovering from addiction to cocaine. And I could be posting from the postion of a lesbian, transsexual, alcoholic, owl from Jupiter. Doesn’t necessarily make it so. > [@](#): > > She didn’t say she had proof or cites. Well, you’re right there. She has no proof or cites, but that hasn’t stopped her from posting as if she did. “Bush is a cokehead who still hits the bottle” in merely her opinion. Isn’t there a forum dedicated to opinions a bit North of here? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/142 "2005-09-30T04:09:12Z")
Is there any rule which states opinions are not allowed in the Pit? If so, could you kindly point me in the direction of that sticky? Because I think about 2/3’s of this forum needs warning if that’s the case. We’re talking about people with substance abuse problems. Interestingly, people with substance abuse problems are sensitive to recognizing the signs of others suffering from the same affliction. We’re not discussing the problems of being a lesbian transsexual nocturne from outer space. But as soon as there’s a scandal involving another of your kind, please feel free to grace us with your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/143 "2005-09-30T04:29:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As **UncleBeer** points out, the Dems are also given to statements about “family values”. > > The larger problem is that there isn’t anything about “I support family values” + my kid got busted for dealing coke or underage drinking that leaves you open to charges of hypocrisy, while “I will run the most ethical Administration in history” + all the associated scandals makes you exempt. > > Regards, > Shodan What was unethical about the Clinton administration? What phony “scandal” ever stuck? ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/144 "2005-09-30T04:37:30Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Is there any rule which states opinions are not allowed in the Pit? No, I don’t suppose there is. By the same token, there’s no rule against people requesting cites for allegations, nor for disregarding said allegations when no cites are forthcoming. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/145 "2005-09-30T04:41:33Z")
Absolutely. Whine and bitch as much as you want about someone putting forth their opinion, and then having the raw nerve to admit that it’s her opinion, not fact. I’ll wait here til you’re done. I’ve also heard that holding your breath til you turn blue works on some people. You could try that, too. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/146 "2005-09-30T04:59:35Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Absolutely. Whine and bitch as much as you want about someone putting forth their opinion, and then having the raw nerve to admit that it’s her opinion, not fact. I’ll wait here til you’re done. I’ve also heard that holding your breath til you turn blue works on some people. You could try that, too. I’m not whining about anything. Point is, she hasn’t been presenting her thoughts as “opinions”, but as “facts”. Guess that just rubs me the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/147 "2005-09-30T05:05:31Z")
While picking on the Bushs, let’s not also forget that Columba Bush is an attempted smuggler. They didn’t become trash with cash by paying their customs fees. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/148 "2005-09-30T17:04:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > With respect to Barbara and Jenna Bush, I don’t regard their “crimes” as particularly serious. While the acts are nothing admirable, the fact of the matter is that many, many college students drink while underage, and use someone else’s ID to get into coveted clubs or bars. The twins, through no fault of their own, are much more highly visible than would average girls of their age. It was certainly foolish and an exercise of poor judgement to do what they did, but it’s not an sort of evidence of poor parenting. Nor does any reasonable proponent of “family values” suggest that adhering to the principles of “family values” – whatever their specifics might be – will inoculate the family against an incident like this. The issue here isn’t so much the severity of the offense, but the stupidity of the perpetrators. (And perhaps poor rearing.) My wife had a roommate who was the daughter of a high government official in her home state, and she was quite paranoid about not doing anything to bring attention to herself and her father. Plenty of college kids drink in less public places. I think the sin here is not the drinking, though, but the lack of respect for their parents - certainly another family values issue. > [@](#): > > Let’s take it a step further. Suppose the seatbelt expert’s child was killed in an accident while NOT wearing his seatbelt. Can we then conclude that the seatbelt expert’s push to wear seatbelts is wrong? > > Again, no. The truth or falsity of his claims have nothing to do with that result. > > Now let’s take it even further. Suppose, after the accident, it became clear that the seatbelt expert, despite his public crusade, never encouraged his own children to wear seatbelts. Does THIS invalidate the truth of his claims regarding seatbelt safety? > > Of course not. > > It does, however, fairly invite criticism of him as a hypocrite. Beyond that, it would make one wonder if he really believed in what he was espousing. For instance, one might wonder if he was being paid by the Seat Belt Institute (if such a thing existed) to push seat belts though he personally was not convinced of their effectiveness. That’s why it is not that great an analogy. To some extent I think we all believe that the Bushes believe superficially in family values, except they ignore all counter-examples. I think you are also making the argument too nuanced. Yes, it is clear that no amount of family values guarantees a good result, but I don’t hear them paint this anything but black and white. Look at the outrage over showing a happy lesbian couple. BTW, I think the evolution argument is evolution -\> atheism -\> bad family values. Creationism -\> old time religion -\> good family values. Not their top argument, but I have heard it used. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/149 "2005-10-02T02:57:51Z")
I always wondered, amid all the smoke and mirrors of the Republican Party stand on “Family Values” as a core issue in their public advertising, just why we (stinking bleeding hard queer loving peacnick leftists) just give them a pass on the most obvious failure it represents in public debate. Specifically, the presumption that family values are matters of Government responsibility and authority seems to me to be as staunchly authoritarian as any repressive regime in history. But, hey, these are the don’t tax and spend anyway conservatives, and no one calls them on that either. God is to be defined by Congress, and prayer taught in federally funded schools, by government approved ciricula, and this is all the same party that used to claim that big government is the worst sort of government. (I am surprised that the Religious Right is so keen on the NEA being given spiritual authority over their children. I hadn’t realized how much they love teachers.) Oh well. I even find Democrats to be far to “conservative” for my tastes. Give me a Goldwater liberal, anytime. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/150 "2005-10-02T03:37:08Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > You mean “libel is an actionable action.” Because libel is written, not spoken; and it’s not a matter for the police (unless we’re both reviving the Sedition Act), but rather for a civil case. We’ve [covered](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6629538&postcount=22) [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6632853&postcount=97). RTFT. ---
**Author:** ![ryobserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b2d939/32.png) [@ryobserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryobserver)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/151 "2005-10-02T23:31:43Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > He already spends money like drunken sailor… Now _this_ is a libel, on drunken sailors. Drunken sailors spend their \*own \* money. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813/152 "2005-10-02T23:59:43Z")
> [@ryobserver](#): > > Now _this_ is a libel, on drunken sailors. Drunken sailors spend their \*own \* money. Hic!!, thas jus not twue. Often, we borrow heavly frum udders. Hic!! Seriously, drunken sailors in the US Navy are often spending money they borrowed so it is an apt comparison. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-younger-gens-bush-thank-god-for-family-values/323813.md?page=7)