# The YouTube implosion of TheFineBros **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 1, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856 "2016-02-01T17:05:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/21 "2016-02-01T20:19:03Z")
Ok, just watched **Jragon’s** video. Makes much more sense now. So Office Space and racketeering. That is a bit scummy if that’s how they’re going to roll forward. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/22 "2016-02-01T20:29:49Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > The issue comes in with the strange racketeering they’re getting into where they seem to think they own the banal format and concept of “teenagers getting excited about The Fault In Our Stars trailer”, and effectively end up saying “that’s a nice reaction video ya got there. Me and my bro here, we’s really likes ya stuff, it’d be a right shame if somethin’ was to happens to it if ya catch my drift.” Further, their licensing scheme is a feeding frenzy, they cannot provide any meaningful branding or support to the people they license because literally **anyone** making a reaction video can join the network. > > They’re basically just trying to get free money from, largely, their own fans who want to make reaction videos. > > I recommend watching the Folding Ideas video I linked above, it’s the distinction between licensing out “Britain’s Got Talent” which is a specific format and stage design, as opposed to simply attempting to protect the format of a “talent show”. I watched the video just now. It’s weird. A lot of what he says seems to be what the Fine Bros themselves said they envisioned for React World - an international franchise model using their logos, admittedly unoriginal format, and the only real thing of value they have - a spot on their channel with millions of subscribers/potential views built in. The rest of it ranges from sounding awful to sounding impossible, and basically seems to take the poor job the Fines did of communicating the idea to extrapolate a sort of doomsday scenario. ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/23 "2016-02-01T20:36:38Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > they said in their update video if you want to make your own reaction videos go ahead… They’ve have been issuing takedown notices against channels making reaction videos, and as Smeghead said they attempted to get their followers to attack the Ellen show for making a reaction segment in her show. There was a channel that made several videos for a “seniors react” concept before the Fine Brothers ever started their “elders react” segment. They got the seniors react videos taken down despite it predating theirs. With their history there’s no reason to assume good faith when they say you are free to make reaction videos. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/24 "2016-02-01T20:40:58Z")
> [@sohvan](#): > > They’ve have been issuing takedown notices against channels making reaction videos, and as Smeghead said they attempted to get their followers to attack the Ellen show for making a reaction segment in her show. There was a channel that made several videos for a “seniors react” concept before the Fine Brothers ever started their “elders react” segment. They got the seniors react videos taken down despite it predating theirs. > > With their history there’s no reason to assume good faith when they say you are free to make reaction videos. yeah, after looking into it a bit i fear you are correct… ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/25 "2016-02-01T20:50:36Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > It’s an interesting question. I’ve sort of peripherally followed this story without much interest, but it seems to me like the move is at least seen as fairly douche-y no matter what the context. It’s hard to not see it as them saying, “OK, if you want to make a video like ours, you can. If you pay us.” It’s been exacerbated by reports (not sure which or how many are true) that YouTube has started blocking similar videos that have been around for a long time because they’re too similar to their newly trademarked format. And they earned a lot of bad will a couple of years ago when they encouraged their followers to “go after” Ellen Degeneris when she did a bit filming kids confronted with old technology, even though her format was certainly nothing like theirs. I’m intrigued as well. I stumbled across a channel called ASAPscience that did an acapella song about science and math using tunes from the Star Wars soundtrack which I enjoyed but there was a big to-do with commenters accusing the channel of stealing from Jon Cozart who has some popular videos with acapella songs about Disney characters and Cozart even commented on Twitter about their failing to acknowledge him in the description of the video. Generally I think the internet just gets mad about things. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/26 "2016-02-01T21:13:14Z")
It really amazes me that they could spend this much time online and not be aware of how The Internet (or at least, the section of it that subscribes to YouTube channels) feels about intellectual property thuggery. It’d be like a GOP presidential candidate coming out in favor of Satanism. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/27 "2016-02-01T21:22:10Z")
A [graph](https://tfbsubscribers.github.io/) of their subscriber losses. I have no idea why this mesmerizes me. ---
**Author:** ![Cardboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Cardboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardboard)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/28 "2016-02-01T21:48:12Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I wouldn’t really count that counter as real. > > According to just now when I checked that video it said they were at 13, 880, 650 yet according the first video you linked they have 13,919,948 subscribers. So :dubious:. > > I’m a fan of their hot cool vids ya know and I don’t really see how this is really going to hurt them. So the make a few fewer thousand dollars per hot cool vid. They’re still raking in the dough. As far as I know, YouTube doesn’t update subscriber counts in real time, especially with massive number changes like what is currently happening. They have to algorithmically verify the changes first to make sure their aren’t any bots or hacking or shenanigans going on. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/29 "2016-02-01T21:53:50Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > A [graph](https://tfbsubscribers.github.io/) of their subscriber losses. I have no idea why this mesmerizes me. good for them ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/30 "2016-02-01T22:05:42Z")
> [@Cardboard](#): > > As far as I know, YouTube doesn’t update subscriber counts in real time, especially with massive number changes like what is currently happening. They have to algorithmically verify the changes first to make sure their aren’t any bots or hacking or shenanigans going on. Still, what’s telling is that they’re below 14 million, when they were above it. And it’s not as if they don’t get new subscribers every day. As for the other stuff: they do have a channel that is called REACT, and it might make some limited sense to trademark the channel name–with capital letters and everything. That way no one could make “REACT PLUS” and fool people or anything. The same goes for making a show called “Teens/Kids/Elders REACT,” since that is a show name. But all reasonable interpretations fall by the wayside due to their past activities with the Ellen show and the numbers of people getting takedown notices (despite flat out saying they wouldn’t not be trying to get any videos taken down on their Facebook.) When CGP Grey comes out of his self-imposed Internet hole, and [comments on a current Internet thing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-Zr7c-J6qE), and is even [fucking mocking you](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dPnaAt-Rbs), you done fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/31 "2016-02-01T22:20:36Z")
> [@TheSeaOtter](#): > > It really amazes me that they could spend this much time online and not be aware of how The Internet (or at least, the section of it that subscribes to YouTube channels) feels about intellectual property thuggery. > > It’d be like a GOP presidential candidate coming out in favor of Satanism. That’s what has me skeptical about a lot of what’s being said. Can believe they communicated it poorly, but I can’t believe the Fine Bros would, after years as YouTube geeks, suddenly turn out to be thugs. As the Folding vid Jragon posted, the vlogger claims their racket was to get thousands of people to make React vids and funnel them mere pennies from each one. First, they’ve been building the channel for years, expanding it, honing it, putting money back into it. Now they want the name on the video of any slackjawed Youtuber with a webcam to make a few bucks? That would be a HUGE change in persona. Second, they were among the biggest supporters of Grace Helbig when she had to give up Daily Grace because she’d signed a promotional deal with some company and lost the rights to her own channel. Now they’re supposed to be suckering in people with practically no subscribers in a similar deal? As the Folding vid states, React videos are a dime a dozen on Youtube and were before Kids React became a hit and won awards (I think Daytime Emmys?). As far as I know, none of those channels have millions of subscribers or is any kind of threat. I’d love to know the whole story behind the C&D claims, as I suspect some pretty blatant “borrowing” was going on if your vid had 6 views and Youtube came after you. And my originsl question still stands: What could they have done differently to avoid all this? ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_Cello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Clark\_Cello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_Cello)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/32 "2016-02-01T22:46:51Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > And my originsl question still stands: What could they have done differently to avoid all this? They could have not done what they did. It’s as simple as that. There was nothing preventing them from making money, but they decided to try to trademark a very generic type of videos in order to make money, not off of their videos, but off of other people’s videos that have little relation to theirs. If they make quality videos, that people want to see, they will make money. Simple as that. Nothing is stopping them. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/33 "2016-02-01T22:49:06Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > And my originsl question still stands: What could they have done differently to avoid all this? Well, I think obvious answer #1 would be to not have issued takedown orders to all of these other channels hosting similar videos that have been around forever, if in fact that is happening, which it seems to be. If you want people to believe your claim that you’re not interested in shutting down everyone doing something similar, then a good start would be not shutting down everyone doing something similar. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/34 "2016-02-01T22:50:20Z")
The whole thing is ridiculous. If people had actually listened to what they said, they were talking about franchising the particular types of videos they produce. They said nothing about trying to copyright reaction videos. ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_Cello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Clark\_Cello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_Cello)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/35 "2016-02-01T22:56:52Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The whole thing is ridiculous. If people had actually listened to what they said, they were talking about franchising the particular types of videos they produce. They said nothing about trying to copyright reaction videos. No, they weren’t. They were trying to make you think that is what they were doing, but they were very vague as to what their “format” meant. If they really wanted to just license their format, shouldn’t they give some sort of idea about what that format actually is? The purposefully kept it very vague, giving them the freedom to enforce against people with smaller pockets as they see fit. This is evidenced by their other actions, such as the C&D that has been referenced, and the brigading against the Ellen video which is really nothing like their types of videos. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/36 "2016-02-01T23:08:08Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > A [graph](https://tfbsubscribers.github.io/) of their subscriber losses. I have no idea why this mesmerizes me. Or if you plot the goddamned thing with the Y axis starting at zero instead of in an intentionally obfuscated manner, the line appears nearly flat, showing a very, very tiny change in their absolute number of subscribers. Terrible graphs piss me off. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/37 "2016-02-01T23:10:42Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Or if you plot the goddamned thing with the Y axis starting at zero instead of in an intentionally obfuscated manner, the line appears nearly flat, showing a very, very tiny change in their absolute number of subscribers. > > Terrible graphs piss me off. oh :(:(☹ ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/38 "2016-02-01T23:48:40Z")
> [@Clark\_Cello](#): > > No, they weren’t. They were trying to make you think that is what they were doing, but they were very vague as to what their “format” meant. If they really wanted to just license their format, shouldn’t they give some sort of idea about what that format actually is? The purposefully kept it very vague, giving them the freedom to enforce against people with smaller pockets as they see fit. This is evidenced by their other actions, such as the C&D that has been referenced, and the brigading against the Ellen video which is really nothing like their types of videos. They included pictures of the various formats they use in the video and said this is the formats they were going to franchise. ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_Cello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Clark\_Cello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_Cello)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/39 "2016-02-02T00:01:06Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > They included pictures of the various formats they use in the video and said this is the formats they were going to franchise. I am pretty sure they did not do that in their original video. They did it in their damage control video. Also, I think their actions speak louder than their words, where they have gone after videos completely outside of “their” formats. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856/40 "2016-02-02T02:07:21Z")
> [@justmeetee](#): > > I’ve never heard of these YouTube videos and am now wondering, is it just showing videos to someone and showing how they react to the video? Or are these the guys doing things like the guy dressed like an Arab dropping a backpack and running then showing the people it was dropped in front of run away? I’ve watched their videos. They’re entertaining in a lightweight way. The format is pretty basic. They take individuals who are outside of something’s normal demographic. So they might do something like have kids watching an opera or senior citizens watching an Avengers movie. The viewing is done on a laptop with headphones which allows the people to express their opinions clearly and also avoids any issues with ownership of the content that’s being watched. The people individually watch whatever it is they’re watching and make comments. The most amusing comments made are then edited together. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-youtube-implosion-of-thefinebros/744856.md?page=3)