# The Zimmerman/Martin case. Why so cleanly divided between the parties? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036 "2012-03-28T13:11:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/241 "2012-04-07T03:41:42Z")
> **[Mean Girls (2004) ⭐ 7.1 | Comedy](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377092/)** > > 1h 37m | PG-13 ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/242 "2012-04-07T04:19:06Z")
> [@Woodenspoon](#): > > [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303302504577323691134926300.html?mod=googlenews\_wsj](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303302504577323691134926300.html?mod=googlenews_wsj) Yeah. He lost me at “hoodie, a costume of menace,” or at least when I realized he wasn’t joking. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/243 "2012-04-07T05:40:06Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Yeah. He lost me at “hoodie, a costume of menace,” or at least when I realized he wasn’t joking. Agreed. I nearly pissed myself laughing. Whenever I hear people make a big deal about Trayvon Martin wearing a hoodie I want to ask them if they have the slightest idea just how many people wear hoodies. Do a lot of young thugs wear them? Sure, but I don’t see why they’re anymore “a costume of menace” than baseball caps, sneakers, T-shirts, or for that matter, Timberland boots. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/244 "2012-04-07T05:49:29Z")
> [@Woodenspoon](#): > > [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303302504577323691134926300.html?mod=googlenews\_wsj](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303302504577323691134926300.html?mod=googlenews_wsj) Ah, Shelby Steele, twenty years later and still with the same schtick. Just tell white conservatives what they want to hear while being black and let the money roll in. To add to the idiocy he spewed about “the hoodie”, I thought it was humorous how he rails against comparisons to Emmitt Till and then without a pause starts comparing Trayvon Martin to Tawanna Brawley and the Duke Lacrosse case. Moreover, I thought it was rather telling that he referred to Tawanna Brawley and the Duke Lacrosse case, but decided to ignore the DSK case. Personally I think all three are terrible comparisons, but the DSK case is vastly more of an accurate comparison, though still inapt. The difference of course is that many of the people baying for DSK’s blood were the white conservatives who pay Steele’s money and he knows where his bread is buttered. He’s also well aware that white right-wingers get very upset when their house negroes step out-of-line. He saw the way many had a melt-down when Herman Cain started criticizing Rick Perry for the “Niggerhead” incident and how the Fox News audience who turned Juan Williams into a hero after he was fired by NPR booed him mercilessly for daring to question Newt Gingrich about referring to Barack Obama as “the food stamp President”. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/245 "2012-04-07T12:56:17Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Agreed. I nearly pissed myself laughing. > > Whenever I hear people make a big deal about Trayvon Martin wearing a hoodie I want to ask them if they have the slightest idea just how many people wear hoodies. I have a hoodie. My mom bought it for me at the Disney Store and it has Winnie the Pooh (a known addict and thief) on the left breast. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/246 "2012-04-08T15:28:45Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I have a hoodie. My mom bought it for me at the Disney Store and it has Winnie the Pooh (a known addict and thief) on the left breast. I still haven’t figured out the hoodie thing…did Zimmerman make a big deal of it? Does it symbolize his over reacting to appearances? … or is it just something Team Trayvon have used to symbolize their outrage? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/247 "2012-04-08T15:39:38Z")
> [@What the.... ?!?!](#): > > I still haven’t figured out the hoodie thing… > [@Zimmerman](#): > > …there’s a real suspicious guy… he’s on drugs or something… > [@Dispatcher](#): > > OK and this guy is he white, black…? > [@Zimmerman](#): > > He looks black. > [@Dispatcher](#): > > Did you see what he was wearing? > [@Zimmerman](#): > > Yeah, a dark hoodie… > [@Geraldo Rivera](#): > > I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was That’s why. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/248 "2012-04-08T15:54:03Z")
Well, since NBC admitted that they falsified the sound recording released on the network, it is hard for me to belive anything that the news media releases on the incident. According to the news media, Zimmerman was gilty of murder-now we are faced with all kinds of contradictions. As in war, the first casualty is truth. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/249 "2012-04-08T18:10:50Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I still haven’t figured out the hoodie thing…did Zimmerman make a big deal of it? Does it symbolize his over reacting to appearances? > > … or is it just something Team Trayvon have used to symbolize their outrage? It came up mainly because Geraldo Rivera claimed that the hoodie was as responsible for Martin’s death as anything else. It’s largely viewed as a bogus attempt at blame-shifting. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/250 "2012-04-08T19:08:45Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > It came up mainly because Geraldo Rivera claimed that the hoodie was as responsible for Martin’s death as anything else. It’s largely viewed as a bogus attempt at blame-shifting. Thanks. I had no idea that its based on a throw away comment by Geraldo Rivera. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/251 "2012-04-08T21:27:00Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Well, since NBC admitted that they falsified the sound recording released on the network, it is hard for me to belive anything that the news media releases on the incident. According to the news media, Zimmerman was gilty of murder-now we are faced with all kinds of contradictions. > As in war, the first casualty is truth. It was a producer who did that and he was fired for doing so. Tarring not just the whole network, but saying you now refuse to believe anything that any media outlet puts out about the case because of that is stupid beyond belief. That said, based on your logic, the jury made the correct decision in the OJ Simpson case since the police departments of the US have a far longer and more profound history of faking evidence against black defendants so the correct decision was to refuse to believe anything put forward by law enforcement agencies or the prosecution. I’m sure you were one of those people who applauded the verdict and didn’t understand why so many white people across the US lost their shit in response to the verdict. Not doing so would have been massively hypocritical and massively stupid based on the statement you just put forward. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/252 "2012-04-08T22:58:20Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I still haven’t figured out the hoodie thing…did Zimmerman make a big deal of it? Does it symbolize his over reacting to appearances? > > … or is it just something Team Trayvon have used to symbolize their outrage? 1. Drug dealers and gangbangers often wear them (as, of course, do many others). 2. Thus, some people tend to suspect any black male in a hoodie is a gangbanger. 3. Zimmerman included it in his description. 4. Thus, some people assume Zimmerman is one of those in #2. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/253 "2012-04-08T23:13:42Z")
> [@furt](#): > > 1. Zimmerman included it in his description. Zimmerman was asked by the operator what Martin was wearing. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/254 "2012-04-08T23:17:58Z")
Has any source reported the following: 1. How many times did Zimmerman report “suspicious persons” to the 911 operator? 2. Of those reports, how many were white? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/255 "2012-04-08T23:34:33Z")
[http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.html](http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.html) Most of them are about random busy body shit. Garage doors opened, pot holes, trash in the street, alarms, etc. Of the ones that I saw a description of a person in, they are: 6 White Males (1 was on behalf of sister) 2 Hispanic Males 1 Black Male (7 year old kid playing unsupervised) That’s up until 8/3/2011. In this report, Zimmerman calls to report people who match the description given by police of a recent burglary. 3 Black Males All reported as matching the description of a suspect in recent burglary 2 Black Males unrecognized in a car 1 Black Male walking around a house where he knew a white guy lived 1 BM this is the Martin case ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/256 "2012-04-08T23:51:50Z")
> [@treis](#): > > [George Zimmerman's Police Call History | DocumentCloud](http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.html) Your cite appears to be incomplete [bolding mine]: > [@](#): > > A new 47-page document, quietly dumped online by the city of Sanford, details **some of the phone calls** George Zimmerman made to emergency dispatchers in Seminole County, We don’t know what calls were omitted, or why. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/257 "2012-04-09T00:56:39Z")
> [@treis](#): > > In this report, Zimmerman calls to report people who match the description given by police of a recent burglary. How specific was their match to the description? It’s entirely possible that [this effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-race_effect) came into play. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/258 "2012-04-09T02:05:00Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Thanks. I had no idea that its based on a throw away comment by Geraldo Rivera. It wasn’t a “throw away comment”. Rivera pleaded with black and Hispanic parents to keep their children from wearing hoodies. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/259 "2012-04-09T02:15:42Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Your cite appears to be incomplete [bolding mine]:We don’t know what calls were omitted, or why. It seems like a complete dump for records available. Don’t see why we should think any were omitted. > [@gamerunknown](#): > > How specific was their match to the description? It’s entirely possible that this effect came into play. No idea. I seriously doubt that the description was anything more than young black male plus whatever they were wearing at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/260 "2012-04-09T11:32:18Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It seems like a complete dump for records available. Don’t see why we should think any were omitted. Oh I don’t know, maybe because the bolded part says it was only some of the reports? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036.md?page=14)