# The Zimmerman/Martin case. Why so cleanly divided between the parties? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036 "2012-03-28T13:11:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/101 "2012-04-01T13:17:16Z")
> [@Woodenspoon](#): > > at some point we have to stop kidding ourselves over what is reality Oh, we’re all clear on reality. The reality is that as long as there are people like you, black kids will continue to be shot for being black. Thing is, the civilized amongst us don’t find this reality acceptable, and so we work to change it. Sadly, the elimination of people like you isn’t treated quite so lightly by the authorities as the elimination of people like Trayvon Martin, so it’s a bit of an uphill battle. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/102 "2012-04-01T17:31:54Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Oh, we’re all clear on reality. The reality is that as long as there are people like you, black kids will continue to be shot for being black. Thing is, the civilized amongst us don’t find this reality acceptable, and so we work to change it. Sadly, the elimination of people like you isn’t treated quite so lightly by the authorities as the elimination of people like Trayvon Martin, so it’s a bit of an uphill battle. See, this is how it works. One disagrees with the tired, worn out, feel good position so that one must support kids being shot for being black. No discussion of this particular case, just throwing out baseless, flame-filled charges. Let’s see how many of DianaG’s buddies here will condemn her sadness that you’re not more easily “eliminate.” I doubt many, because she - and they - are compassionate stormtroopers. They only want you eleminated because of your ideas. Who is Guy and who is Clarisse? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/103 "2012-04-01T17:37:48Z")
> [@Woodenspoon](#): > > How is it not about criminality. If you thug yourself out you will get the wrong kind of attention. As said many times before, even jesse jackson had to admit if someone followed him down a dark alley and it was a black guy he would be more scared. The reason trayvon got looked at is because a whole lot of trayvons before him had indeed committed crimes. If zimmerman had seen a young white or black girl walking with a bag of skittles his reaction would be quite different, but why wouldn’t it. Its like saying a granny has the same likelyhood of committing a burglary as a 17 year old black boy…at some point we have to stop kidding ourselves over what is reality. Yeah, what a stupid fuck! He should have known better than to go outside while wearing traditional thug garb like black skin. Wait, what? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/104 "2012-04-01T17:41:37Z")
> [@hoopified](#): > > See, this is how it works. One disagrees with the tired, worn out, feel good position so that one must support kids being shot for being black. What’s tired and worn out is the influx of racist posters with join dates of March 2012. I’m not playing this shit with you. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/105 "2012-04-01T19:08:25Z")
I’m not going to list every example or borderline example, but while you’re posting in this forum, don’t call other posters racists or stormtroopers. It doesn’t belong in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/106 "2012-04-01T20:37:44Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > What’s tired and worn out is the influx of racist posters with join dates of March 2012. I’m not playing this shit with you. Was that directed at me? I would like to point out that presumption is what got us here in the first place. Just saying ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/107 "2012-04-02T00:04:31Z")
> [@Woodenspoon](#): > > People just marry themselves to a narrative based on their prejudice, and on the left there seemed to be a pent up desire to push certain agendas, and this was just the right story at the right time. > > For instance just last year an 11 year old hispanic girl was raped by a huge mob of mostly african american boys > [Horrific gang rape by 18 men of girl, 11, in Texas sparks racial tension | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1365112/Horrific-gang-rape-18-men-girl-11-Texas-sparks-racial-tension.html) > > Now why did that not spark accusations that all of black america were clearly racist against hispanics? Or that black people had a problematic culture that condoned rape etc… You just have certain trouble makers trying to use incidents like these, so far the hispanic community has nothing close to what the black community has with the al sharptons and such. > > I didn’t marry myself to a narrative from the start of this story, been bitten too many times by stories that turn out differently as more information comes out, its almost like clockwork these days, whether its phoebe prince, or mike daisey… > > The folks that pick a side aren’t dealing with this like its a case where facts are investigated to reach a truth, they are in it for the politics, and in that you win by shouting other people down pretty much. > > The real story is how folks like al sharpton need to stir the racial pot to cause the racial tension that keeps themselves relevant. Its their sick little game. I’m not sure if your argument here is driven by your ignorance or your dishonesty. The question at issue in the Martin case is why his killer was not thoroughly investigated and arrested. There is no such question in the inflammatory example you cited. The perpetrators were investigated, and when possible, arrested and charged. Not just that, but you won’t find any respectable black Americans defending their actions or making excuses for them. Whereas any number of self-identified conservatives are trying to excuse Zimmerman’s actions and smearing the name of an innocent child in the process. Your choice of this inflammatory example, and your recent join date leads me to believe that your motives are as DianaG characterized them. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/108 "2012-04-02T01:24:01Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > What’s tired and worn out is the influx of racist posters with join dates of March 2012. I’m not playing this shit with you. Ah, yes, the “you’re a racist” card is played yet again. So predictable. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/109 "2012-04-02T01:25:51Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > Was that directed at me? I would like to point out that presumption is what got us here in the first place. Just saying Quite true. But it would seem that some presumptions are more equal than others. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/110 "2012-04-02T17:28:32Z")
After an evening out to mull all this over, I finally understood why I am now a “racist” I refuse to join the forming lynch mob and string Zimmerman from the nearest lamp post. Am I the only person to see the irony here? There is a big difference between Revenge and Justice, which do you want? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/111 "2012-04-02T17:43:52Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I couldn’t disagree more with you. It was the fact that this shooting was so very avoidable that outraged me the most. Zimmerman was clearly encouraged to avoid it, in fact. Exactly. Zimmerman followed Martin for a long time, enough to be noticed. He carried a gun, very much against Neighborhood Watch procedures. When the 911 operator advised him not to follow, he continued to follow. This shooting was ENTIRELY avoidable, and the one who did not avoid it was George Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/112 "2012-04-02T17:55:02Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > After an evening out to mull all this over, I finally understood why I am now a “racist” I refuse to join the forming lynch mob and string Zimmerman from the nearest lamp post. Am I the only person to see the irony here? There is a big difference between Revenge and Justice, which do you want? I might stop thinking you’re a racist if you can point to a single post in this thread demanding that Zimmerman be convicted, much less lynched. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/113 "2012-04-02T18:26:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I might stop thinking you’re a racist if you can point to a single post in this thread demanding that Zimmerman be convicted, much less lynched. I cannot demand that he be convicted, because I am not the prosecutor in this case and in a legal system they are the only ones who can. But I as a Human Being can demand Justice and the Truth, hopefully we will find out exactly what happened that night and if Zimmerman Murdered Martin, then let Justice be done. There is a front page article on this today in the NYT and according to the paper there is quite a bit of confusion about what actually happened and now witnesses are afraid to speak about what they saw(publicly) because of the lynch mob mentality, which is good if you want Revenge not if you want Justice. Now some caveats, does Injustice exist here? Yes absolutely. Is the system gamed against African-Americans? Yes. If the skin colors of the two were reversed, would there have been an arrest that night? Probably yes. If all the outcry over this incident had not happened, would Zimmerman ever face a day in court? Probably not. Will we see Justice done? I hope so, but probably not. Does this view make me racist? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/114 "2012-04-02T20:58:32Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > I cannot demand that he be convicted, because I am not the prosecutor in this case and in a legal system they are the only ones who can. But I as a Human Being can demand Justice and the Truth, hopefully we will find out exactly what happened that night and if Zimmerman Murdered Martin, then let Justice be done. There is a front page article on this today in the NYT and according to the paper there is quite a bit of confusion about what actually happened and now witnesses are afraid to speak about what they saw(publicly) because of the lynch mob mentality, which is good if you want Revenge not if you want Justice. > > Now some caveats, does Injustice exist here? Yes absolutely. Is the system gamed against African-Americans? Yes. If the skin colors of the two were reversed, would there have been an arrest that night? Probably yes. If all the outcry over this incident had not happened, would Zimmerman ever face a day in court? Probably not. Will we see Justice done? I hope so, but probably not. Does this view make me racist? you missed the point entirely, bub. you said racist=anyone who DOESN’T want Zimmerman lynched. your point being you’re not calling for him to be lynched so the “libs” call you racist. ok, so point out one single instance where \*anyone \*said he should be lynched. Not-Bright (who is, actually quite bright) said no one’s even demand he be CONVICTED, much less lynched. so by your definition, EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO’S POSTED IN THIS THREAD IS A RACIST. doesn’t jibe, dude. the only thing anyone’s said against Zimmerman was that the case was grossly mishandled and that it suuuuure seems this killing was avoidable, if not malicious and/or intentional based on a kind of zeal or anti-black “they are all criminal” mindset that predisposed him to be a little more eager to shoot than he very much should have been. all you “just joined in march” crew members sure seem to be saying no to ^that. you seem to have the mindset zims is totally in the right, to the extent the case should have been dismissed as it was by the police initially. “good call, those cops. \*dusts hands.” that’s what it SOUNDS like you’re saying. anyone, of any political leaning, who values justice SHOULD want Zimmerman investigated to the fullest extent possible just to be sure justice is served. that’s all the “liberals” here have been saying. that, and the shooting was wholly unavoidable and the whole ball of wax is real, real shady. being as shady as it is, i’d think conservative-types would want clarification to the fullest degree. esp CC gun owners and 2nd amendment folk. for the record, i’m a card carrying republican. so that should quash the whole “it’s political” debate. it won’t. but it should. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/115 "2012-04-02T21:08:09Z")
Dude. We here at the SDMB really appreciate Capital letters and similar niceties. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/116 "2012-04-02T21:17:34Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > you missed the point entirely, bub. > > you said racist=anyone who DOESN’T want Zimmerman lynched. your point being you’re not calling for him to be lynched so the “libs” call you racist. > ok, so point out one single instance where \*anyone \*said he should be lynched. Not-Bright (who is, actually quite bright) said no one’s even demand he be CONVICTED, much less lynched. so by your definition, EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO’S POSTED IN THIS THREAD IS A RACIST. > > doesn’t jibe, dude. > > the only thing anyone’s said against Zimmerman was that the case was grossly mishandled and that it suuuuure seems this killing was avoidable, if not malicious and/or intentional based on a kind of zeal or anti-black “they are all criminal” mindset that predisposed him to be a little more eager to shoot than he very much should have been. > > all you “just joined in march” crew members sure seem to be saying no to ^that. you seem to have the mindset zims is totally in the right, to the extent the case should have been dismissed as it was by the police initially. “good call, those cops. \*dusts hands.” > that’s what it SOUNDS like you’re saying. > > anyone, of any political leaning, who values justice SHOULD want Zimmerman investigated to the fullest extent possible just to be sure justice is served. > > that’s all the “liberals” here have been saying. that, and the shooting was wholly unavoidable and the whole ball of wax is real, real shady. > > being as shady as it is, i’d think conservative-types would want clarification to the fullest degree. esp CC gun owners and 2nd amendment folk. > > for the record, i’m a card carrying republican. so that should quash the whole “it’s political” debate. it won’t. but it should. Nope not what I said at all, nor did you get what I was trying to say for this whole thread. What is driving me nuts is being called a racist for no reason, please re-read my last post ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/117 "2012-04-02T21:31:29Z")
Remember, folks: The real tragedy of this whole affair is that people who are reflexively suspicious or fearful of black people are being branded as racist. Damn that Trayvon for going and getting himself shot! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/118 "2012-04-02T21:51:27Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#): > > After an evening out to mull all this over, I finally understood why I am now a “racist” I refuse to join the forming lynch mob and string Zimmerman from the nearest lamp post. Am I the only person to see the irony here? There is a big difference between Revenge and Justice, which do you want? > [@](#): > > Nope not what I said at all ummmm. it’s _precisely verbatim_ what you said. “why am i now a “racist?” because i refuse to join the lynch mob and string zimmerman up.” your words. racist=anyone unwilling to string up zimmerman. now all you have to do is show me where this “lynch” mob is. just one post backing up that there IS a mob who wants him strung up. who ever said he should be lynched? sorry, no—i don’t see the irony in the thing that doesn’t even exist. mostly because you just fabricated it. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/119 "2012-04-02T22:09:57Z")
Put me down for $5.00 on the New Black Panthers. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036/120 "2012-04-02T22:10:01Z")
> [@black\_rabbit](#): > > Remember, folks: The real tragedy of this whole affair is that people who are reflexively suspicious or fearful of black people are being branded as racist. Damn that Trayvon for going and getting himself shot! Remember folks: the real tragedy is not that a young man was killed, the real tragedy is that people who are reflexively suspicious or fearful of due process might lose the steam behind their agenda. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zimmerman-martin-case-why-so-cleanly-divided-between-the-parties/617036.md?page=7)