# The Ziz cult
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [February 9, 2025, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103 "2025-02-09T22:42:14Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2025, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/21 "2025-02-12T02:08:10Z")
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2025, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/22 "2025-02-16T14:01:52Z")
So I’m a bit obsessed with this, even though I couldn’t care less about terrible true crime stories. Probably as it seems pretty close to home to me, I used to live in the Bay area and used to hang out at a anarchist tech hacker space where these kind of weirdos would definitely feel at home.
I don’t think they preyed on trans homeless youth (of which there a lot in SF ☹ ). As with most cults they were targeting educated but alienated younger people, in their case it seems techies.
One thing I’m kinda interested in knowing more about is who are are the “rationalists”, they are apparently closely connected to? I knew some people in the Bay Area (friends of friends) who called themselves that. But they were more radical atheists, than advocates for veganism, etc. They are progressive politically but much more interested in arguing about whether Jesus didn’t exist at all or was just a random dude who had myths invented about him.
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### Author:  [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2025, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/23 "2025-02-16T15:04:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Yeah, we need to figure out what needs the cults are meeting, and then find sane, healthy ways, as a society, of meeting those needs.
The problem is that societal interactions (at least among strangers) are generally transactional and utilitarian. These cults _appear_ to provide support without asking for anything in return. But of course, in the end, they really ask much _more_ of the individual than what they provide.
The most precious people in society are those who provide more than they ask in return, those who give freely without demanding recompense. A good many will do this for family or friends, but unfortunately, those who are willing to do this for strangers are very rare.
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2025, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/24 "2025-02-16T20:49:41Z")
> [@griffin1977](#):
>
> One thing I’m kinda interested in knowing more about is who are are the “rationalists”
So having read more about these “rationalists” and watched the video in the OP. I’m pretty sure they are nothing to do with the “rationalist” organization my friend is involved in, that’s all about radical atheism and nothing to do with all that Peter Theil funded, effective altruism futurist BS.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [February 16, 2025, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/25 "2025-02-16T21:39:05Z")
“Rationalist” is pretty useless as a group descriptor, because everyone thinks that they’re the rational ones.
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/26 "2025-02-18T01:47:50Z")
> **[Police arrest apparent leader of cultlike 'Zizian' group linked to multiple...](https://apnews.com/article/zizians-killings-border-patrol-bf599db6b9ec354c68ed5ff4d5701b84)**
>
> The apparent leader of a cultlike group known as the Zizians has been arrested in Maryland along with another member of the group.
> Jack Lasota, 34, was arrested Sunday along with Michelle Zajko, 33, of Media, Pennsylvania. They face multiple charges including trespassing, obstructing and hindering and possession of a handgun in the vehicle.
It’s not clear from this exactly what lead to the arrest.
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### Author:  [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/27 "2025-02-18T02:56:59Z")
Thanks for the update, PastTense. This will keep the cult in the news for now.
I cannot connect any of the Zizian insanity to anything in my extensive knowledge of transgender subjects. It’s all way too bizarre, and is 100% as bizarre to trans people as it is to cis people. It makes me uncomfortable to have it even tangentially associated with trans people in the current political climate. It’s more like random dumb chance that the crazy struck among a social circle of trans people this time. Cis people have the Manson Family to answer for, so don’t _even_ start in on trans people.
I wonder if it will ever be revealed what “Ziz” stands for. I can’t help being reminded of the original name for Palermo, Sicily. _Ziz_ meant (I think) ‘flower’ in Punic. Another _Ziz_ (זיז) is “a giant griffin-like bird in Jewish mythology.” Hebrew and Punic are both dialects of the Canaanite language. In Hebrew, זיז _ziz_ also means a projection in the sense of ‘something which projects’. Well, a flower is a projection from a plant, I guess.
I was hoping Lasota isn’t Sicilian as well, but it seems to be of either Czech or Polish derivation. In Czech, it would have the stress accent on the first syllable, but in Polish, the stress goes on the penultimate syllable. The AP article can’t make up its mind whether the name is Lasota or LaSota. Wikipedia tells of a Jack LaSota, a former Arizona attorney general, who is not Ziz. Well, if that name ain’t set up for confusion!
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### Author:  [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/28 "2025-02-18T03:05:04Z")
I’m also wondering what Ziz and Zajko were doing in Western Maryland (not far from me!) and how the cops caught them. Let us know if more turns up on this. Allegany District Court is in Cumberland, in the heart of the Allegheny mountains. The DC snipers 23 years ago were also nabbed in the Western Maryland mountains.
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/29 "2025-02-18T03:11:57Z")
I just wanted to say once again- I love all your knowledge. Should you ever visit the city of brotherly love, I shall treat you to a beverage of your choosing.
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### Author:  [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/30 "2025-02-18T03:18:19Z")
Danke schön, Herr Doktor, for your gracious hospitality. I have made one visit to Philadelphia in my life, to what was sacred ground for the Lenni Lenape, and wrote a poem to my ancestors about it. I’ve also written historical fantasy about one of my Irish ancestors from the Pennsylvania Alleghenies visiting Germantown, Philadelphia in the 1790s and meeting a strange refugee from Germany who drops vague hints about “the illumination to come,” but my ancestress is too Catholic to put up with that talk.
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### Author:  [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/31 "2025-02-18T05:12:45Z")
> [@DemonTree](#):
>
> Honestly, I think we’re moving further away from that as a society, with the rise of social media and decline of ‘third spaces’. Not helped at all by Covid isolation.
Not to mention the coarseing of our politics and the reactioary impulses of our culture at this point in time. The hate roaming society can only increase the needs of vulnerable people to look for community. Fresh and plentiful meat for preditors.
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### Author:  [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/32 "2025-02-18T05:17:18Z")
There’s a lot of discussion about why this isn’t receiving more mainstream news coverage.
Here’s what I personally think: Those news outlets saw the phrase “transgender cult” and the phrase “10 foot pole” quickly came to mind.
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### Author:  [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/33 "2025-02-18T05:28:41Z")
I know. Right?
I mean @Johanna mentioned the mansons, but US history is littered with freakish, murderous, and suidal cults. The mere whisper of “Trans,” would cause all sorts bullshit pearl clutching, and torch and pitchfork marching. Just gross hypocrites.
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### Author:  [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/34 "2025-02-18T16:18:04Z")
Well, it’s hitting the news networks today all right. The story is getting too big to ignore. It already has the makings of the Manson Family of the 2020s. One can already see the miniseries of it not far off. This has “miniseries” all over it.
I just can’t get over how this all started with a method to drive oneself literally insane. Mental and physical health depends on having the brain hemispheres communicating and integrated along with the two sides of the body. To deliberately break what makes us humans, turning a person into an I-don’t-know-what, is literally the most insane thing I’ve ever heard of.
Charles Manson’s thuggish plans for a race war look downright pedestrian by comparison. But Ziz is some mad scientist shit.
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/35 "2025-02-18T16:25:24Z")
> [@Sylvanz](#):
>
> The mere whisper of “Trans,” would cause all sorts bullshit pearl clutching, and torch and pitchfork marching. Just gross hypocrites.
The Ziz cult was on the local news last night.
> [@nearwildheaven](#):
>
> Here’s what I personally think: Those news outlets saw the phrase “transgender cult” and the phrase “10 foot pole” quickly came to mind.
Here’s what I personally think- It is a very small cult and there have been only a handful of deaths. For quite a long time, it just wasn’t much of a story.
I didn’t know of David Koresh and The Branch Davidian until armed government agents assualted their compound.
Most people outside of Pennsylvania have never heard of Father Divine and his cult, or MOVE. MOVE only made the news when police made several armed assaults on their compound. Mayor Wilson Goode authorized the dropping of explosives on the roof. The resulting fire killed several people in the MOVE compound (including a few children) and destroyed a bunch of houses.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/36 "2025-02-18T16:29:37Z")
Except for the trans angle, this is basically the same kind of story you find a hundred examples of in HBO or Netflix true crime docu-series. The Manson headlines did make a lot of the hippie angle but the story had legs because of the fame of the victim(s) and the (at the time) novel brutality and motives for the crimes. If we are still talking about this case a year from now, it will be because it has been weaponized for the culture wars.
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### Author:  [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/37 "2025-02-18T16:34:34Z")
I can see it now: _Killer Kults from Inner Space_
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/38 "2025-02-18T17:05:10Z")
When you think of crazy U.S. cults the Jonestown Massacre comes to mind with 918 dead. Ziz is a minute fraction of this:
> **[Jonestown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown)**
>
> The Peoples Temple Agricultural Project, better known by its informal name "Jonestown", was a remote settlement in Guyana established by the Peoples Temple, an American religious movement under the leadership of Jim Jones. Jonestown became internationally infamous when, on November 18, 1978, a total of 918 people died at the settlement; at the nearby airstrip in Port Kaituma; and at a Temple-run building in Georgetown, Guyana's capital city. The name of the settlement became synonymous with A t...
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### Author:  [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/39 "2025-02-18T17:19:29Z")
What was the last cult in the US to hit the news? Probably NXIVM. Why? Probably because of the DOS part of it with sexual slavery and branding and the involvement of minor celebrities like Allison Mack.
A bunch of weirdos not bothering others doesn’t make the news. Even if they’re horrible people to each other. There’s gotta be some sort of hook, like criminal charges.
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### Author:  [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2025, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ziz-cult/1014103/40 "2025-02-18T17:47:07Z")
This showed up on our local news last night, because there was a raid made about 10 days ago on a couple of properties in Chapel Hill where some of these folks were apparently living. There wasn’t much info made available about the raid at the time - now there is known to be a connection with the people who were just arrested.
> **[Cultlike group investigation linked to FBI search in North Carolina: Report](https://abc11.com/post/cult-nc-fbi-search-case-cultlike-group-zizians-linked-6-deaths-multiple-states-cracked-open-border-agent-killed/15911657/)**
>
> Cross-country investigation that included North Carolina broke open after the Jan. 20 shooting death of Border Patrol agent David Maland in Vermont
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