# The ZPG Zealot handshake thread party extravaganza **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713 "2016-06-29T16:14:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/381 "2016-07-05T01:52:40Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > The only thing that concerns me about this story is the possibility that you had something to do with them getting convicted. Pretty much what I was thinking, whether that meant; “Nothing happened to me. I got several men fired for sexual harassment, ruined their reputations and their careers and now everyone is terrified to be in the same room with me. Life is good.” ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/382 "2016-07-05T01:56:06Z")
I once got accused of being a Think Tank Of One. But I think I’ll add **Sub-Culture Of One** to my business cards… * * * **Jackson D. Diggersby** Writer Of Wrongs Herder Of Nerfs Sub-Culture Of One Have Pez. Will Travel. * * * ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/383 "2016-07-05T02:19:40Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > No, the polite thing and correct thing to do is wait for the woman to extend her hand. That is always the correct etiquette. But if for some reason you can’t pass up the possible opportunity to shake someone’s hand, ask, with your words, not some implied non-verbal communication which someone may or may not be understand as a non threatening gesture. No, in a business context it is extremely rude to single out the women for special treatment. If you feel like you might run into someone like ZPG-zealot, you could ask every person you meet if they shake hands, but then everyone will think you are weird. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/384 "2016-07-05T10:32:33Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I have a problem with saying that virtually all men in the US and countries with similar handshake traditions are rapists or attempted rapists, and virtually all women are whores, victims of rape, rape enablers, and traitors to their gender. It’s extraordinarily hateful stuff, both misogynistic and misandrist, and her claims to feminism via this idiosyncratic slut shaming are laughable. ^ This. When I posted in defense of her the other day, I hadn’t yet read the latest depths to which she sank. There is no excuse for any of that disgusting attitude. I withdraw what I said earlier, because not only is there no merit in her claims, her aggressive pushing of them in the face of everything means she is totally looking for a fight. I was not insulting the group for denouncing her. It was just my instinctual wariness of everybody dogpiling an individual—and, as I already posted—quite apart from the clear merits of the arguments against her. I was trying to be fair by holding out a futile hope that she might have worthwhile contributions to make on other topics—but I was wrong. Also, I didn’t run away—I’m just not much of a Pit thread participant. But now I’ve changed my mind. Infanticide? Slut-shaming? The fuck? The sick stuff she asserts shows a depraved hostility to human dignity (and a depraved hostility to common fucking sense). Every excuse she’s offered, most of all the religious/cultural one, has been thoroughly debunked, demolished, and she hasn’t the ghost of a leg to stand on. She’s dug herself too deep to ever extricate herself and it is not a pretty sight. So now I really have no more to add. Peace out. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/385 "2016-07-05T11:41:43Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Question for any Romany or those actually familiar with the Romany culture: Is there in fact such a sub-culture with the proscriptions/traditions which ZPG Zealot has described? Remember that one person does not constitute a sub-culture. Once again I feel compelled to point out that ZPG has expressly stated that this is not merely an aspect of Roma culture, but of all American cultural groups except rednecks. > [@ZPG Zealot: A troll too far](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/83): > > Actually, it isn’t ingrained in many American cultural groups. I grew up in the old South where men only extended their hands first to hookers. Most of my families close non-Roma friends were orthodox Jews or Latino, none of them ever pawed at women, well hookers in bars maybe, but not women they respected. **In fact, the only American cultural group that I know of where sticking out a hand at a woman is accepptable is the lower working class sort of redneck culture where the people don’t know how to act like polite members of society.** Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/386 "2016-07-05T12:43:33Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > According to **Kal** , who is also Roma, **ZPG** belongs to some subset of Roma. That is why I said she has never specifically stated. That’s possible. It is also possible she’s just a bigot. Again, I ask that everyone just simplify; she’s a racist. If you’re a major league racist, it’s your personal opinion on what your culture is that you define as being the only correct way to be a human being. That may be a warped perspective that does not fit in with the majority of people who identify as the same ethnicity as you, as is the case with ZPG Zealot, or it might be a fringe opinion. The fact that it is not actually the way most Roma (or insert ethnic group here as the case requires) thinks is irrelevant. Most white people of Northern European descent do not consider themselves thrash-metal-loving Vikings who should shave their heads, but that’s what white supremacists often seem to believe. It might also result in having to twist yourself in silly illogical knots, such as ZPG Zealot’s insistence that “whore” is not offensive but is offensive, or lies, such as “handshakes aren’t good etiquette except among rednecks,” which is such an obvious lie you’d think she was Donald Trump. It’s all easier to understand - and dismiss as laughable - if you just view it through the filter of “She’s a racist.” Because she is. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/387 "2016-07-05T13:45:36Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > In my years of working with battered women I have seen some evil cases. It doesn’t excuse the abuser of his crimes, but people should consider how their actions may affect other people. My offering to shake a woman’s hand doesn’t cause her to be beaten, any more than wearing a short skirt causes her to be raped. Your energy should be focused on the actual misogynist and abusers who _literally do_ treat women as property to be damaged, who aren’t ashamed of it, and then stand behind culture to enable it, as opposed to the person attempting to extend a gesture of respect, who at worst, is typically acting from ignorance. You say it doesn’t excuse the abuser, but by placing that responsibility on someone else, that’s _exactly_ what you’re doing. The handshake isn’t the heart of this abuse issue. The abuse is the issue. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/388 "2016-07-05T13:50:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That’s possible. It is also possible she’s just a bigot. Again, I ask that everyone just simplify; she’s a racist. > > … > > It’s all easier to understand - and dismiss as laughable - if you just view it through the filter of “She’s a racist.” Because she is. I’m convinced. But the person most in need of convincing is ZPG Zealot. I’m not holding my breath that will happen any time ever. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/389 "2016-07-05T14:30:15Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > What perplexes me is the cognitive dissonance on display. She is fighting for women! By buying into the idea that a husband owns his wife. Women deserve respect! By treating them as delicate flowers and not equals. Respect cultural differences! Well you whores and gender traitors need to respect mine; i spit on yours. Help battered and abused women! By reinforcing the idea that slutty women who shake hands are violating their husbands ’ rights to sole ownership and might just end up dead. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > Don’t forget: Calling someone a whore isn’t that much of an insult. But I should stab someone for suggesting I’m a whore! (I’m so glad multiquoting works on AWS! It never worked on Citrix!) I just wanted to say I love these two posts. A very good encapsulation of the entire thread. > [@Johanna](#): > > ^ This. When I posted in defense of her the other day, I hadn’t yet read the latest depths to which she sank. There is no excuse for any of that disgusting attitude. > > I withdraw what I said earlier, because not only is there no merit in her claims, her aggressive pushing of them in the face of everything means she is totally looking for a fight. > > So now I really have no more to add. Peace out. Thank you, **Johanna**. I don’t really like being called a gender traitor just for being the kind of woman I want to be, and I was surprised to see you defending her. I don’t dogpile and I didn’t add to this mess, but I am glad other people are patient enough to go through it line by line. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/390 "2016-07-05T18:29:00Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > She’s a bigot. > > Her culture’s way of doing things is correct; all others are morally wrong. > > There isn’t a lot more to it than that. Everyone is looking at this the wrong way; she’s crazy, she’s a troll, she believes X but not Y, and so on. The entire thing is remarkably simplified and logical if you simply realize she’s a massive racist. Her people are correct; everyone else is dirty and wrong. > [@RickJay](#): > > It’s all easier to understand - and dismiss as laughable - if you just view it through the filter of “She’s a racist.” Because she is. - stands and applauds \* ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/391 "2016-07-05T19:07:05Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Anyone here _seen_ **ZPG** ’s hands or have a picture of one, cause I’m harder than Chinese algebra imagining those long, smooth fingers. [Or this](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/06/47/12/0647122d49781ed821c26b48eadfdbf4.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/392 "2016-07-05T19:11:23Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > [Or this](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/06/47/12/0647122d49781ed821c26b48eadfdbf4.jpg) _stands and applauds_ ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/393 "2016-07-05T19:47:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That’s possible. It is also possible she’s just a bigot. Again, I ask that everyone just simplify; she’s a racist. She has also said she wouldn’t do fortune telling for some races, so no matter how you define racist, there she is. Of course, she’s punishing those races by not scamming them… ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/394 "2016-07-06T00:28:37Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > ^ This. When I posted in defense of her the other day, I hadn’t yet read the latest depths to which she sank. There is no excuse for any of that disgusting attitude. > > I withdraw what I said earlier, because not only is there no merit in her claims, her aggressive pushing of them in the face of everything means she is totally looking for a fight. > > I was not insulting the group for denouncing her. It was just my instinctual wariness of everybody dogpiling an individual—and, as I already posted—quite apart from the clear merits of the arguments against her. I was trying to be fair by holding out a futile hope that she might have worthwhile contributions to make on other topics—but I was wrong. I am glad that you did finally read the material and come to the same conclusion as the others – who are familiar with her. I am curious, though, if calling us un-American is not an insult, then what is it? Or did I parse the wrong. Were you in fact insulting us, but just for another reason? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/395 "2016-07-06T03:48:15Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > She has also said she wouldn’t do fortune telling for some races, so no matter how you define racist, there she is. > > Of course, she’s punishing those races by not scamming them… This is the quote I think of every time I see **ZPG Zealot** ’s name > [@Should Mom-and-Pops That Forgo Gay Weddings Be Destroyed?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/260): > > There’s an interesting twist on Civil Rights laws: how do you deal with a charlatan who refuses to scam people based on their race? I mean, how do you argue that a person’s been harmed by a racism-based \*refusal \*to victimize them? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/396 "2016-07-06T04:49:26Z")
Look on the bright side. At least she doesn’t keep her finger on the trigger of her handgun ALL the time… [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17730547&postcount=36](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17730547&postcount=36) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/397 "2016-07-06T04:52:34Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Look on the bright side. At least she doesn’t keep her finger on the trigger of her handgun ALL the time… > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17730547&postcount=36](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17730547&postcount=36) How’d you like the incredibly vague “close calls” as the reason for her being trigger happy against males? Seriously, that post you’ve linked to reinforces my suspicion that those men she referred to earlier as being convicted sex offenders got convicted based on her nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/398 "2016-07-06T05:11:07Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Look on the bright side. At least she doesn’t keep her finger on the trigger of her handgun ALL the time… > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17730547&postcount=36](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17730547&postcount=36) Yikes! Well, at this point, i hope she’s just a troll, and not what she describes. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/399 "2016-07-06T05:12:35Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The actual etiquette is a man waits for a woman to extend her hand. The evidence is all around you. Look at the problem of date rape on campuses and sexual harassment in the work force. This is actually true. However, in business settings in particular where there is an egalitarian attitude between men and women, that rule has been set aside in the interest of not treating women differently because they’re women. A vast improvement, to my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713/400 "2016-07-06T05:22:50Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yikes! > > Well, at this point, i hope she’s just a troll, and not what she describes. **Cab Driver:** “That’ll be $12.65 mam.” [proffers hand] **ZPG** [Fires weapon] BAM!! Later, when police arrive at the scene… **ZPG** “He tried to rape me officer!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-zpg-zealot-handshake-thread-party-extravaganza/758713.md?page=21)