# Thee and thou? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 16, 2001, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thee-and-thou/65611 "2001-05-16T15:28:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Brainlego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7993a0/32.png) [@Brainlego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainlego)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thee-and-thou/65611/1 "2001-05-16T15:28:45Z")
As some of you may recall, I posted a question a few months ago about the similarities between the German and English languages. I got many enlightening answers, but one piddly little question still lingers… I understand that our old words for you, ‘thee’ and ‘thou’, are analogous to the German ‘Sie’ and ‘du’. First question: does anyone have any idea as to why we gave up the formal and informal you’s when every other major Indo-European language uses that system? I looked in Mario Pei’s ‘History of the English Language’, but found very little information there. Second question: when we did use the two forms, how did one use them? My guess is that ‘thou’ was used for close friends and family, and ‘thee’ was used for everyone else, but I may be wrong on this one. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thee-and-thou/65611/2 "2001-05-16T15:52:20Z")
[Try this link.](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/m971211c.html) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thee-and-thou/65611/3 "2001-05-16T16:14:43Z")
Just for the record, “thee” and “thou” are not analogous to “Sie” and “du”. “Ye” and “thou” are analogous to “Sie” and “du”. “Thee” is objective case, and “thou” is nominative case. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thee-and-thou/65611/4 "2001-05-16T18:57:42Z")
It was a long time ago I read it, and I don’t have a copy, but I think _The Mother Tongue_ by Lancelot Hogben answers this question. IIRC, he said that _thou_ largely disappeared about the time James I took the throne. At about this time standard English was influenced by the Scots dialect (since James was Scottish), and that _thou_ was not in common use in Scotland at that time. Can anyone with a copy of the book confirm my fuzzy memory? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thee-and-thou/65611/5 "2001-05-16T20:01:01Z")
Bibliophage: I’d be interested in your comment on this remark that I ran across while searching the Internet for an on-line version of your book. The remark is at [ElectricEditors.net](http://www.electriceditors.net/edline/vol6/6-10.txt) > [@](#): > > Date: Wed, 7 March 2001 > From: Josephine Bacon, [bacon@langservice.com](mailto:bacon@langservice.com) > > Be careful with using textbook sources for comparisons of English and other language structures. I have not found significant mistakes in the books you mention but Lancelot Hogben wrote a book called “The Mother Tongue” about the history of English that is full of errors in his comparisons with other languages. For instance, he writes that Hebrew is written bi-directionally, something that could have been checked so easily. ---
**Author:** ![ziji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/db5fbb/32.png) [@ziji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ziji)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2001, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thee-and-thou/65611/6 "2001-05-16T22:03:24Z")
Dear Brain: Take a look at my posting “Re: Thee/thou Q from Brainlego” I opened your post (which smoke later told me was a duplicate) which had a closed thread. So I posted my response as a new thread. Regards Ziji