# Then starve to death, you homeless fuck! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2001, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587 "2001-01-17T23:27:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/41 "2001-01-18T06:03:16Z")
**nowalls:** > [@](#): > > Humans are the only species I know of that will attempt to keep every member alive, regardless of its ability to survive on its own. I see it as a weakness, and going against nature’s first law. When did humans become wiser than nature? Was that some time around the time we started destroying our environment? I want to second Daniel here; there are _many_ animals who try to care for the old and sick within their community. Oh, not the same thing as homelessness and poverty? Well, those are basically human inventions–lucky us. Seriously, AFAIK social animals like ants, lions, et cetera do have social ‘laws’ which are enforced strongly and to the purview of which transgressors are severely punished. In fact, you might even say that mankind’s reason has allowed us to **transcend** these built-in socializations (which were themselves, arguably, hardwired for the good of the species)…we can come up with rationalizations for _not_ sharing resources with those members of society less fortunate, even though almost every social animal on earth uniformly takes care of its own kind to the extent that it is able. As our circumstances grow more and more complex, we’re able to invent creative uses for concepts like “survival of the fittest,” ignoring that we are twisting the phrase into “survival of the initially more fortunate,” depending on where we are born, to what wealth, and to what color of skin. Social Darwinism is a huge pile of steaming William Shockley shit. **Scylla:** Still seemed pretty damn harsh for sarcasm, in the context of things. Sorry if I missed that you were being cute. ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/42 "2001-01-18T06:27:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden \* > \*\*why is it that “the homeless” never have money “for food”- but always seem to have enuf to always be smoking? \*\* 'Cause people like me who won’t give out cash _will_ give out smokes. I hated trying to decide who was worthy of my spare change and who was just slackin’, so I gave up on that altogether. Instead I volunteer (cooking/cleaning) at a local shelter/kitchen, donate gently-used clothing and househoold goods to charity instead of giving it to my friends (hey, they’re working!), and make a point of donating to the charities like [UnitedWay.org](http://UnitedWay.org) and [sharethewarmth.org](http://sharethewarmth.org) that help my community. Sure, I occasionally get dirty looks and abuse (“rich bitch!”) from people when I politely refuse their requests for cash but I usually let it slide. They don’t know my reasons for saying no, just like I don’t know their situation. I’m no saint, but I’ve done something to ease my guilt over successfully supporting myself. If that makes any sense. ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/43 "2001-01-18T06:45:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nowalls99 \* > And, love and compassion are human **concepts** , but not what set us apart from other species. The opposable thumb is the only difference between humans and non-primates. That’s it, huh? Ah well, ok. It would seem that since most of humanity revels in its love and compassion, that such features might be characteristic in the human animal. Of course, from what I’ve seen, such characteristics are reserved from those people we consider to be in “our group” - and up until now your selfish ways have indicated the only person you give a damn about is yourself. If that is so, I most heartily hope you find yourself in the worst of all situations, and alone. > [@](#): > > Just because I don’t fear death doesn’t mean I don’t like life. I want to live, and help make the human race a better place. If we get rid of the weak links, doesn’t the whole chain get stronger? Mein fuhrer! Is this where you’ve been hiding all these years? Please, do elaborate on your standings on how we should classify those who are fit to live in your distinguished presence versus those who should not? Either way, I hope you someday have a child who does not fit your standards so you might then find human compassion and love. Oddly enough, you are sorely lacking. > [@](#): > > I just want people to pull their heads out of their asses and understand that death isn’t something to fear. We are all going to die, so why fear it? Bullshit, you’ve pretty much given a big thumbs-up to the concept of letting people who beg die simply because some of them cannot help themselves. And if you can’t see what is wrong with that point of view, then you - in my simple-human-opinion - aren’t fit to be classified along with the rest of us. You, sir, are the equivalent of fungus. Yet, unlike you, I will respect your right to hold your position and let you live out your life, perhaps someday with the help of others (we can only hope). And - furthermore - we might all die, we might not. I think humanity is getting close to erasing such a thing from our existence (at least natural death). However, if you want, please - at my insistence - eat, drink, and smoke your way to an early grave so when immortality finally arrives, we need not deal with your ilk any longer. Good day. ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/44 "2001-01-18T06:52:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nowalls99 \* > And, in response to your arguement that my parents raised me because I asked, that is as insane as the rest of your arguements. My parents didn’t ask me if I wanted to be born. They decided to have a child, and then upheld their responsibility for caring for the human they brought into this world. But wait, what if raising you detracted from their ability to be productive citizens? After all, you were nothing but a weak link at that point - I suppose you think they should have just crushed your puny little skull and been done with it? > [@](#): > > And, you’re right, I won’t find much support to shut down all the hospitals, even if it would be the best possible thing for the Earth. Most people are so afraid of death, at least in the US, that they want hospitals. You’ve never been to see any medical professional? Never paid for a huge bill on credit? Why should a doctor trust credit - hell, if he treats you now and never gets paid because you couldn’t afford it in the long run, he loses out. It’s official, cash only, first come - first served. No offense, but I’m waiting to hear something sensible - have I missed something you’ve said? ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/45 "2001-01-18T06:55:45Z")
Cajo sez: > [@](#): > > …but I’ve done something to ease **my guilt over successfully supporting myself**. If that makes any sense (bolding mine) Um, no, it doesn’t. I realize that some people are on the streets because of situations beyond their control. And, really, I’d rather not the rehash the old, tired “They’re all lazy criminal drug abusing SOBs” vs. the “You need some compassion! They all could have been hit by an tsunami 3 days ago, for all you know!” argument. Anyway, GUILT FOR SUCCESSFULLY SUPPORTING YOURSELF? What is wrong with you? You should have no guilt for this whatsoever. Yeah, I know, who am I to tell anyone what they should feel guilty over, right? Well, let me tell you – If I said that you shouldn’t feel guilty for having a child, I doubt anyone would disagree. If I told you not to feel guilty for eating dinner last night, that would be ok, right? So why feel guilty for making a successful living? That’s not to say that at the same time you can’t be sympathetic to homeless people, but…I just can’t grasp the mindset that would cause you to feel guilt for doing what seems to me to be a rudimentary plan for most humans. Anyway, I’m just going in circles with this. It’s late and I’m probably not expressing myself well. And, Cajo, this is not intended to be a attack on your person, you very well might be Jesus 2 for all I know. I just don’t understand your position. Sorry if this is unintelligible, I’ll be a more coherent doper tomorrow, scout’s honor. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/46 "2001-01-18T09:38:15Z")
I’m with **Medea’s Child** on the subject of this thread. I’ve worked with homeless people myself, and now I never give them anything. The ones who are homeless truly through no fault of their own are rarely the ones begging for money. The only ones who go around panhandling as a habit are the people who are either A) too fucked up to hold a job or have a normal life for whatever reason, be it drugs, booze, mental illness, or a combination of the three, or B) those who are, yes, **lazy**. They do exist. I’ve seen them myself, and heard their tortuous arguments (or simple refusal) for not working. The “honest homeless” beg as little as possible, do everything they can to get off the streets, and express gratitude for _anything_ given to them. They are a pretty small group. I would say categories A and B make up about 70% of all the homeless I’ve ever come into contact with. Given that, the odds are that my money is fueling a substance abuse habit or helping a deadbeat stay the way he is. So I give them nothing. ---
**Author:** ![choosybeggar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@choosybeggar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choosybeggar)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/47 "2001-01-18T11:51:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by woodstockbirdybird \* > \*\* You can not only alienate potential good samaritans (supposedly your only source of income), you can be choosy about what you eat. \*\* You sayin’ beggars can’t be choosers?🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/48 "2001-01-18T14:14:00Z")
**why is it that “the homeless” never have money “for food”- but always seem to have enuf to always be smoking?** Well, after working at a homeless shelter for a while, I noticed a lot of their smokes were “home-made”. That is, they would collect old butts, take any tobacco left in them and roll them in paper. Probably pretty nasty. Here’s a story I just heard on the radio yesterday. A mechanic who was making 60k a year was hit by a person on a motorcycle, the cyclist had no vehicle insurance to cover the medical bills. Eventually the mechanic, who was no longer able to work at his profession had to spend all his savings and sell everything he owned to cover the bills. He now lives on the street. I tend to give more to international organizations myself, because even though there is poverty here, it is nowhere near as terrible as in the developing world. As well, we have some infrastructure to deal with these things. I will give some to local homeless however. Even if it will help them feel a little more human for just a day it is worth it. btw **Nacho4Sara** , you are a lovely person. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/49 "2001-01-18T16:04:21Z")
Woodstock, I know you didn’t mean to send the debate raging off in these directions, but it’s been interesting and I’m glad people are having such a good debate. I agree with Opal here–this guy sounds like a real shit. However, how “typical” he is of the homeless population is sheer speculation. We’ve got lots of homeless here, and lots of people asking for money. I rarely give them anything, but when I say no I look them in the eye and address them politely. If they ask nicely, seem together, and I’m feeling generous, I’ve been known to give them change. I’ve also given food, and gotten warm thanks. There is one woman in town who has been homeless for years. Originally she stayed out of shelters because they were very restrictive. I used to be of the mind that “If you’re getting a free roof over your head, you should be thankful and not gripe” but the more I think about it, I understand. We’re a society that craves and values freedom. Look at how many threads we start bitching about laws, rules, restrictive parents, dumb work regulations, etc. Are the homeless supposed to just swallow all those values and love being ordered around, out of sheer gratitude? I can see where it would rankle, especially when you hear about some of the regulations. It’s not just “No drugs” either. Some pretty strict rules and requirements. Of course, in Lena’s case, she also drank and THAT was against the regulations (for good reason). But now she’s got serious liver disease, cannot drink anymore, but she chooses to live on the streets. I can’t understand all the factors that make this the best option for her, but hey, I haven’t lived her life. When I see Lena, I do give her money. Do not overestimate, BTW, how hard it would be to get a job when you have no way to make yourself presentable for the interview, no phone number to list, no address to put down. And once you get the job? You have no reliable transportation, no way to shower each day, few clean clothes, etc. Sure, a real go-getter could overcome all these things, and then as the paychecks come in the problems would get solved. But how much get-go would you have if you’ve been sneered at for months, hassled by cops, were sleeping on the streets or in the no-privacy atmosphere of the shelter, wondering where your next meal was coming from, having to strategize how you’ll handle even the smallest things we take for granted like how to take a dump without getting arrested. Would you have the get-go in you to convince an employer to take a chance on you? I’m not saying I’m overly sympathetic to all of the homeless. I understand what those of you who feel so differently are saying. But I am awed by the challenges that even the most “noble” of them must face. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/50 "2001-01-18T16:15:18Z")
> [@](#): > > If you aren’t able to survive in society on your own, regardless of the reason, you shouldn’t be kept alive by others. What a load of shit. Let’s kill our children, the disabled, the injured, those who have lost their jobs, the elderly, the stupid. . . . . . .oh look, you’re first in line. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/51 "2001-01-18T16:32:43Z")
This one is hitting close to home for me right now. I just got out of a very uncomfortable situation where I tried to help out and it blew up in my face. A local guy, living very much on the edge, asked for work so I thought, “sure! great!” and hired him for small odd jobs. But his demands for money escalated; wanting money advanced to him, loans, tools started going missing, work wasn’t getting done–and he was making my life a misery. (Hey, at one point I’d advanced him $140 against work to be done in the future!) He was literally stalking me; ringing my doorbell 5-6 times per night, coming into my office and demanding money, waiting for me in parking lots, etc. I finally got my tools back and cut the connection. The I found out he was using my name as a work reference. The person who told me runs a social service agency, and was quite helpful in putting it in perspective. I was feeling equal parts scared, angry and ashamed for being such a schmuck. The guy had pulled the same thing on my friend; demanding _money_, rejecting food and offers to be hand-led through assistance programs, etc. Yep, drugs and alcohol are the problems. Don’t ask me how I missed it; my Ex is a chronic alchoholic who’s now close to death from drinking. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, huh? This was one person. Lord knows I won’t generalize about the homeless or the very poor. But something so seemingly harmless as giving work to someone who asked for it still boomeranged on me, badly. Sad to say, I _am_ much more cautious and suspicious now. And I don’t even know if that’s good or bad. Veb ---
**Author:** ![egkelly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/db5fbb/32.png) [@egkelly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/egkelly)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/52 "2001-01-18T16:45:33Z")
I’m reminded of that famous line fron Dicken’s “A CHRISTMAS CAROL”: Scrooge: “are there no work houses, no jails?” Concerned gentleman: “there are, but many would rather die than go to them…” Scrooge: “well, they should die now and DECREASE the SURPLUS population!” Things haven’t changed much in 150 years, I guess! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/53 "2001-01-18T17:49:22Z")
Let’s face facts. Most people living on the streets have really big problems. Mental illness and drug addiction account for (WAG) probably 90% of them. Sure, there are lots of people who lose their jobs and are kicked out of their apartment, but does that make them homeless? I’ve been in situations where I’ve stayed with friends or family for a while because I didn’t have enough money to afford rent. Was I homeless then? No. In my opinion, misnaming the problem as a “homelessness” problem is a source of confusion. The REAL problem is mental illness and drug addiction and calling it homelessness is one of the things that prevents solving the problems. In this country it is almost impossible to commit someone involuntarily unless they are violent. Have we been well served by this policy? Should we change the laws to make it easier to institutionalize mentally ill people that are now wandering the streets? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/54 "2001-01-18T17:51:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m reminded of that famous line fron Dicken’s “A CHRISTMAS CAROL”: > Scrooge: “are there no work houses, no jails?” > Concerned gentleman: “there are, but many would rather die than go to them…” > Scrooge: “well, they should die now and DECREASE the SURPLUS population!” > Things haven’t changed much in 150 years, I guess! Bear in mind that Dickens wrote those words in 1843. Victorian England had no social services for the indigent, so church or parish-sponsored institutions like workhouses were the only grim alternative to absolute starvation. for people truly in need in 2001 america, there are many options for help. chriches, shelters, and local, state, and Federal agencies. Worst comes to worst, there is some stop gap for someone who really needs aid. However, I have no pity for drug and alcohol users who want me to support their habits. I got menaced by three homeless guys at the Dupont Bank of America ATM on Christmas Eve; why should a decent, hardworking guy have to put up with that? I was raised in an abusive, alcoholic household; I paid for college myself with no help from (ha) parents. Nobody has ever handed me a thing in my life. Everything I have (and it isn’t much), I earned. Don’t try to leach off of me, homeless parasites. Get a job, get help, get off the streets, and leave me the hell alone! ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/55 "2001-01-18T17:58:29Z")
Scrooge: “are there no work houses, no jails?” Concerned gentleman: “there are, but many would rather die than go to them…” Scrooge: “well, they should die now and DECREASE the SURPLUS population!” —Is everyone else picturing the Concerned Gentleman and Scrooge being portrayed by Waylon Smithers and Montgomery Burns? ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2001, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/56 "2001-01-18T19:16:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TVeblen \* > \*\*Sad to say, I _am_ much more cautious and suspicious now. And I don’t even know if that’s good or bad. > > Veb\*\* Well, Thorstein – although I don’t agree with every word spoken through the Prophet Mohammed, keeping this in mind helps: > [@](#): > > **Alms should be for the poor who have made straight their ways for Allah since they cannot go about in the land conducting business; the ignorant man thinks them to be rich on account of their abstaining from begging; you can recognise them by their mark; they do not beg from men importunately; and whatever good thing you spend, surely Allah knows it.** ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2001, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/57 "2001-01-19T03:16:04Z")
**jmullaney** you’re thoughtful, wise and a complete dear for posting that. Thanks so much–and I mean that most sincerely. The situation was so unexpected and just scary enough that it’s rocked me off balance. What you wrote helps–a lot–in getting that balance back. Owe ya one, pal. Veb ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2001, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587/58 "2001-01-19T21:14:30Z")
There is only one beggar I’ve given money to, and he got it because he made me laugh. At Ohio State, along High Street, there are scads of guys panhandling year-round. There was/is this one guy, though, that always had smile on his face and he wouldn’t just ask for money, he’d do a little ditty or make up a rhyme. The one that always comes to mind is “I don’t want to beg, I don’t want to steal, I just want a dollar ninety-nine for a happy meal!” Whether you gave him anything or not, he _always_ said “Have a good day, God Bless.” After a few years of seeing this guy, I started pitching a coupla’ quarters if he piped up a good laugh for me. I figure it’s worth it. For anyone interested in doing more: > **[Homepage | Mercy Corps](https://www.mercycorps.org/)** > > Mercy Corps is a global team of humanitarians, working together on the front lines of today’s biggest crises to create a future of possibility, where everyone can prosper. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/then-starve-to-death-you-homeless-fuck/50587.md?page=2)