# Theological questions about the Pope resigning **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993 "2013-02-11T17:26:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/21 "2013-02-11T23:34:55Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Sarah Palin made famous the term “gotcha question” as a description of politically uncomfortable questions that one didn’t want to answer And like the Pope, she’s a quitter… ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/22 "2013-02-12T00:12:26Z")
I’m astonished it’s the first time in 600 years. I’m doubly astonished that this guy, conservative as he is, would go against a tradition that well established. Symbolically, it’s weak, too: he should be more “Christ-Like” (or more like Peter) and die in the service of the church. But, more seriously, it’s a job, man, and if he can’t do it, stepping down is the right thing. Otherwise, he becomes a figurehead, and people around him are doing the real work. It prolongs the succession crisis; it leads to people doing more jockeying for prominence. Still, I guess it’s better than relying on assassination, as in the death of John Paul the First. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/23 "2013-02-12T03:34:22Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > It wasn’t a gotcha. Perhaps you didn’t mean it to be, but no one can objectively read this: > [@OP](#): > > Seeing as how the Pope is the infallible conduit on earth through whom god pours his divine honey, what does the selection of another Pope while this one’s still alive mean for god’s infallibility? Most Popes serve until they die, at which point they are “called back to heaven” for a seat at god’s side. This one got tired of it and quit. Why did god pick someone who couldn’t handle the job? Did he make a mistake? Or is the job god wanted done on earth only capable of being done at that point in time by Ratzinger? It seems to me that if god was truly infallible, that picking a man who would quit after a few years was a huge mistake. Why didn’t god kill this guy, excuse me, “call him back to heaven” instead? And not see a attempt to find some sort of “gotcha” for religious people. This is not rocket surgery, that a pope out of office is no longer a pope. That God didn’t decree Popes to be “popes for life” and that a person who is too old to perform the tasks of his job should step down and let someone else do it. The pope is not Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/24 "2013-02-12T04:47:01Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Otherwise, he becomes a figurehead, and people around him are doing the real work. Would anyone notice the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/25 "2013-02-12T04:54:23Z")
I wonder if this is a clue to what went on during the period of the last Pope’s lengthy decline. Ratzinger would then have been close to the action. Did he see a great deal of unseemly jockeying? A power vacuum that risked becoming dysfunctional because there is no Regency process available may have made him think twice about imposing it again, even though he was the beneficiary the last time. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/26 "2013-02-12T05:04:26Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > In less than a 2 months, a new Pope will probably be coronated. Nitpick: Just an inaugural mass. [Papal coronations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_coronation) went out with the [papal tiara.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_tiara) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/27 "2013-02-12T05:50:59Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > [CatholicAnswers.com](http://CatholicAnswers.com) suggests Benedict XVI will return to the bishopric. He would remain a bishop, right? The papacy is an office that one can resign, but consecration as a bishop leaves an indelible mark on the soul or some such? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/28 "2013-02-12T06:43:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Nitpick: Just an inaugural mass. [Papal coronations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_coronation) went out with the [papal tiara.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_tiara) And it doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be in two months exactly – depends on how long it takes them to pick a new Pope. (I think the record is two years!) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/29 "2013-02-12T07:05:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yep, me too. > > There are (sadly) a not inconsiderable number of Catholics who either did not get, or fail to retain, religious education, and thus approach their faith as a sort of patchwork “we do this because we do it,” framework as opposed to understanding what basic elements underpin our religion. > > A good illustration of this came from a friend of mine, who observed people entering the church for the Good Friday service – he watched them genuflect as they entered the pew, exactly as they do every Sunday for Mass. > > But the reason we genuflect upon entering the pew is that the consecrated Host is reserved in the tabernacle at the front of the church – it’s to the Real Presence of Jesus that we show reverence in this way. > > On Good Friday, the tabernacle is open, and empty. There is nothing to genuflect _to_. > > As my friend wryly observed: “To what, exactly, were they genuflecting? And worse: to what were they genuflecting the rest of the year?” Now, I’m confused (and I was raised a Catholic). If Jesus is present in the Host as you enter the church, what happens during the transubstantiation? I thought the host turned into the substance of Jesus during the Mass (and the bell gets rung so nobody misses the miracle occurring before their eyes). Prior to that, I thought that Jesus was only present in the sense that he’s always present everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/30 "2013-02-12T07:25:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Now, I’m confused (and I was raised a Catholic). If Jesus is present in the Host as you enter the church, what happens during the transubstantiation? I thought the host turned into the substance of Jesus during the Mass (and the bell gets rung so nobody misses the miracle occurring before their eyes). Prior to that, I thought that Jesus was only present in the sense that he’s always present everywhere. It’s customary to keep (“reserve”) consecrated hosts - i.e., hosts consecrated at masses already celebrated) in the tabernacle behind the altar. The original purpose was to have consecrated hosts available so that the sacrament of communion could be administered to the sick and dying, etc, but in time a practice arose of venerating the consecrated hosts, and of occasionally displaying them for this purpose. Whatever the reason, when you enter a Catholic church there are typically _consecrated_ hosts reserved in the tabernacle, which is usually behind the altar, and a small red lamp burning nearby to remind you of this fact. The hosts were conscrated at a mass already held. The unconsecrated hosts kept avaiable for future masses are kept in a cupboard somewhere, and are of no particular importance. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/31 "2013-02-12T07:28:26Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > He would remain a bishop, right? The papacy is an office that one can resign, but consecration as a bishop leaves an indelible mark on the soul or some such? Yup, he’ll still be a bishop. Some sources have suggested he’ll still be a cardinal; I’m not sure that he will, but at a minimum he will still be a bishop (bishop emeritus of Rome, to be precise, and archbishop emeritus of Munich). Of course it’s possible that the next pope will (re)appoint him as a cardinal, but he willl not need to be reappointed or returned to the bishopric. He’s not leaving it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/32 "2013-02-12T08:40:04Z")
CNN (I know…) says he’ll be styled Cardinal Ratzinger. Personally, while I have no love for the man (or maybe because of that), I’d say this is a good thing, and probably something _more_ Popes should have done in the recent past. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/33 "2013-02-12T08:54:12Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > It’s customary to keep (“reserve”) consecrated hosts - i.e., hosts consecrated at masses already celebrated) in the tabernacle behind the altar. The original purpose was to have consecrated hosts available so that the sacrament of communion could be administered to the sick and dying, etc, but in time a practice arose of venerating the consecrated hosts, and of occasionally displaying them for this purpose. > > Whatever the reason, when you enter a Catholic church there are typically _consecrated_ hosts reserved in the tabernacle, which is usually behind the altar, and a small red lamp burning nearby to remind you of this fact. The hosts were conscrated at a mass already held. The unconsecrated hosts kept avaiable for future masses are kept in a cupboard somewhere, and are of no particular importance. Precisely correct. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/34 "2013-02-12T16:53:37Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And it doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be in two months exactly – depends on how long it takes them to pick a new Pope. (I think the record is two years!) But, this time they have more lead-time – they can get everything ready for the Conclave **before** the See is even vacant. Conceivably, they could get the election done in two weeks. (By canon law, I believe, there must be an interregnum of at least two weeks.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/35 "2013-02-12T16:59:14Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Why did god pick someone who couldn’t handle the job? Did he make a mistake? Nitpick: the apostolic succession (selection of popes and bishops) is handled by the Holy Ghost, not God. Well, it’s still sort of God. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/36 "2013-02-12T17:15:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Perhaps you didn’t mean it to be, but no one can objectively read this: > And not see a attempt to find some sort of “gotcha” for religious people. This is not rocket surgery, that a pope out of office is no longer a pope. That God didn’t decree Popes to be “popes for life” and that a person who is too old to perform the tasks of his job should step down and let someone else do it. The pope is not Jesus. See, that might have been a gotcha if I didn’t know about the infallibility thing with the ex-cathedra decrees, but I didn’t. I thought everything he did was divinely inspired, from the holy shit he takes, to the choices he makes shampoo. Ignorance fought. You, my friend, are very paranoid. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/37 "2013-02-12T17:27:40Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > See, that might have been a gotcha if I didn’t know about the infallibility thing with the ex-cathedra decrees, but I didn’t. I thought everything he did was divinely inspired, from the holy shit he takes, to the choices he makes shampoo. Ignorance fought. You, my friend, are very paranoid. I don’t see this aversion to “gotcha” questions. I have no idea if this question was a “gotcha” or not – who cares? If the questions exposes a logical inconsistency, then that must be admitted; if (as here) the presumed inconsistency rests on incorrect assumptions, then those incorrect assumptions should be identified and corrected. In short: who cares if it’s a gotcha or not? Why not simply answer it, as was done here? (This is more a reply to John Mace…) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/38 "2013-02-12T17:40:15Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > You, my friend, are very paranoid. Eschew personal commentary like this, please. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/39 "2013-02-12T17:41:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nitpick: the apostolic succession (selection of popes and bishops) is handled by the Holy Ghost, not God. Well, it’s still sort of God. Not “sort of” - according to Christian teaching, the Holy Spirit is God. “[Neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance](http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html).” Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/40 "2013-02-12T18:05:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not “sort of” - according to Christian teaching, the Holy Spirit is God. “[Neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance](http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html).” > > Regards, > Shodan _[Some](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Lateran_Council)_ Christian teaching. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993.md?page=3)