# Theological questions about the Pope resigning **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993 "2013-02-11T17:26:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/61 "2013-02-15T23:10:22Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yeah, I presume he automatically stopped being a cardinal when he became Pope. I could see that he would remain a bishop, though - and would, specifically, become Bishop of Rome. > [@Bricker](#): > > No, the new Pope will be Bishop of Rome. Benedict will be the former Bishop of Rome. Still a bishop, but with no see, so he’s Bishop Emeritus of Rome… Thanks, but you misunderstood. I was referring to what happened when he became Pope in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/62 "2013-02-16T00:18:18Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Thanks, but you misunderstood. I was referring to what happened when he became Pope in the first place. Oops - yes, I did. And you were perfectly correct. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/63 "2013-02-16T02:00:03Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I’m certain that, more than once, past Popes have become too weak, sick or senile to fulfill heir duties. In those instances, their aides, servants and handlers propped them up and the Church maintained the pretense that all was well. And IMO having been himself the fading John Paul’s main prop on the doctrinal/disciplinary side, plus having just recently experienced the incident of leaks from a trusted aide, Benedict knows that in _these_ times that is no longer as easy, or maybe even possible, to pull off without creating a great deal of friction and dissatisfaction, maybe even disgust, and questions about exactly who is issuing instructions and teachings, not just among the insiders but among a flock of a billion many of whom now have 24/7 satellite news and Internet. > [@](#): > > Joeph Ratzinger is different- he recognizes that he is weakening, both mentally and physically, and has acknowledged that fact openly and honestly. And, let’s face it, if he HAD tried to hang in there a few more years, MANY of the same people now calling him a quitter would be scoffing, “Look at that feeble old man! Everybody can see he’s too old for the job, why doesn’t he have the decency to resign?” Also, as a career prelate, he knew that as he grew weaker he would no longer be able to make the Curia and the Bishops toe the line (one of his main jobs in the JP2 reign). His statement suggests he feels the organization deserves to have a leader who can take charge and _lead_, rather than an empty figurehead eroded by both extrinsic and intrinsic factors, just marking time. Theologically, it would be no problem that College of Cardinals may have been guided by the Spirit to choose him, with the Divine Will being all along that he be a transitional pontiff and that he would in turn pass the baton voluntarily in due time. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/64 "2013-02-16T02:21:34Z")
And of course since the resignation was announced, more and more details about his health have come out. He has a pacemaker and had an operation on it fairly recently; during his trip to Mexico he fell and hit his head. I think it also turned out that his future residence in the Vatican has been under renovation for months, which makes it sound like this was not as sudden or surprising as it initially sounded. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/65 "2013-02-16T03:17:52Z")
His brother Georg said in an interview that he’s known for months that the Holy Father was seriously considering resigning. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/66 "2013-02-17T11:03:26Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > This one got tired of it and quit. Why did god pick someone who couldn’t handle the job? Did he make a mistake? Or is the job god wanted done on earth only capable of being done at that point in time by Ratzinger? Well, it could be that what God wanted Ratzinger to do as Pope has already been achieved. Hey, maybe having the balls to resign is even part of it. If I am given a job, and eventually move or get moved to another, does that mean I was the wrong person? No, it could be that the job was over, or that company policies got misinterpreted, or that I got an offer for a better job. In this case the job of “being Pope” still exists, but yeah, maybe there were specific tasks God had in mind. I can’t tell, don’t have His number in my cellphone. Frankly, when it comes to “oh noes, God made a mistake”, there’s several Renaissance Popes who are hard to beat. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/67 "2013-02-17T16:47:07Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > …Frankly, when it comes to “oh noes, God made a mistake”, there’s several Renaissance Popes who are hard to beat. Amen to that - the Master speaks: [Was there once a female pope? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/432/was-there-once-a-female-pope) ---
**Author:** ![NormalDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7993a0/32.png) [@NormalDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NormalDude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/68 "2013-02-18T07:26:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nitpick: the apostolic succession (selection of popes and bishops) is handled by the Holy Ghost, not God. Well, it’s still sort of God. Surely this is a bit of humor? Of course the Holy Ghost **is** God. Functionally it is carried out by humans under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. One thing though? Where in the Bible does Jesus say anything about apostolic succession or that the Church must have a continuous line of “Vicars of Christ?” ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/69 "2013-02-18T17:25:35Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > One thing though? Where in the Bible does Jesus say anything about apostolic succession or that the Church must have a continuous line of “Vicars of Christ?” Not everything that God wants is written in the Bible. I mean, he does occasionally speak to people, doesn’t he? Things like: “Chase the English out of France!” or “Kill all the Catholics!” or “Thou shalst not have abortions!” or “Thou shalst not drive a car! Drive a buggy!”. You’re not trying to argue with ‘facts’ against people’s beliefs, are you now? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/70 "2013-02-18T18:30:44Z")
> [@NormalDude](#): > > One thing though? Where in the Bible does Jesus say anything about apostolic succession or that the Church must have a continuous line of “Vicars of Christ?” On the serious non-snarky side of the question: For the catholic tradition of Christianity (including but not limited to the RCC, the Orthodox Churches and a whole lot of the rest of historic Christianity), there are sources of Teaching and Revelation **other** than the plain text of the Bible. Both the Apostolic Succession (every validly ordained bishop nominally has a chain of ordinations all the way to the Apostles; not an exclusively RCC doctrine) and the Papacy (as Jesus chose Peter to be the leader of the Apostles, so his direct successor in the office he held at death – Bishop of Rome – is personally the leader of the Church upon whom Jesus vests authority to “whatever you bind or loosen on Earth, so shall be in Heaven”) get supported through interpretations in the writings and councils of the Fathers of the Church with reference to various texts in the Gospels and Acts regarding the Apostles, the filling of vacancies among them, their decisionmaking processes, the annointing of leaders of new communities and Simon Peter’s leadership. Of the two concepts, the Apostolic Succession has been more widely accepted than the monarchical Papacy; there are millions of Christians outside the RCC in churches who claim to observe the Apostolic Succession. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993/71 "2013-02-18T21:23:15Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Joseph Ratzinger is different- he recognizes that he is weakening, both mentally and physically, and has acknowledged that fact openly and honestly. And, let’s face it, if he HAD tried to hang in there a few more years, MANY of the same people now calling him a quitter would be scoffing, “Look at that feeble old man! Everybody can see he’s too old for the job, why doesn’t he have the decency to resign?” And let’s face it, many of the same people who praise John Paul II for hanging on until the bitter end–despite the obvious signs that he was “too old for the job”–are now praising Benedict XVI for quitting. Funny how double standards work… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theological-questions-about-the-pope-resigning/649993.md?page=3)