# Theology question **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 30, 2001, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520 "2001-10-30T14:33:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/21 "2001-11-01T22:53:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jharding \* > so now we’ve got a choice of three. > > Muslim: Friday > Jewish: Saturday > Christian: Sunday It’s more complex than that. If memory serves (and I’m looking for a citation), there is at least one faith which celebrates it’s “day of worship” for each day of the week. More when I have something I can back that up with. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/22 "2001-11-01T23:19:35Z")
Still searching. In the meantime, [here’s what Cecil says about the OP](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_140.html). ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/23 "2001-11-02T00:31:47Z")
Polycarp: > [@](#): > > C.M.Keller, observant Jew, sees a preschool child playing in the busy street just beyond the bounds of where he may lawfully go on the Sabbath, and declines to rescue the child in order to keep the Law, He is, on Christian principles, falling short of the true meaning of the Law in a vain attempt at literal adherence. (In point of fact, I’m confident that CMK would in fact save the child and have a quick bit of Rabbinic halacha to show that it was, in fact, in keeping with the Law.) Poly, Yeowtch! :eek: Is this what you Christians are taught about the Pharisees? Any Torah law (except three, but Sabbath observance is not one of those three) may be violated in order to save a life. And yes, there is a Rabbinic statement as to where this principle is found in the Torah: It’s Leviticus 18:5, which says “Keep my decrees and laws, that a man should obey them and live by them. I am the LORD.” The Rabbis learn the phrase “and live by them” to mean “and not die by them,” i.e., saving a life takes precendence over all (well, almost all) commandments. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/24 "2001-11-02T00:57:38Z")
Thanks, **Chaim** , for validating my point about what a pious Jew would in fact do. As I had hoped was evident, what I was condemning was not the keeping of the Law but _legalism_ in the sense of rigid adherence to rules with no thought of the intent behind them. And you did precisely what I said a good follower of the Law would – you identified a way, explicated by rabbinic study, in which the Law, with intent understood, would permit the apparent violation of a particular law, even one of the Ten Biggies. **John (Yue Han)**, I continue to be amazed. Brilliant job on explicating how law and love work together. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/25 "2001-11-02T07:07:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > \*\*Polycarp: > > Any Torah law (except three, but Sabbath observance is not one of those three) may be violated in order to save a life. \*\* Just out of curiosity, what are these three exceptions? ---
**Author:** ![Yuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/50afbb/32.png) [@Yuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yuck)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/26 "2001-11-02T08:00:23Z")
Great thread! Surprised however that no one seems to have noticed that the reason we Thank God It’s Friday is because the weekend comes next. Take a day of rest on the Sabbath, than praise God on the Lord’s day. A footbal game on TV certainly encourages the former. And, hell, sleep in on Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![Yuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/50afbb/32.png) [@Yuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yuck)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/27 "2001-11-02T08:01:45Z")
Sorry, “than” should be “then” ---
**Author:** ![Kaje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kaje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaje)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/28 "2001-11-02T22:45:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > > \*\*Polycarp: > > > > Any Torah law (except three, but Sabbath observance is not one of those three) may be violated in order to save a life. \*\* > > Just out of curiosity, what are these three exceptions? \*\* And they better not have anything to do with keeping kosher. ---
**Author:** ![dierson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@dierson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dierson)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/29 "2001-11-02T22:50:53Z")
This is a good question. I always felt the first christians went to temple on saturday and church on sunday. To cover all the bases. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Spiratu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Spiratu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiratu)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/30 "2001-11-03T01:45:47Z")
That’s not a bad idea, really. Heaven knows **I** feel like taking two days off every week. ---
**Author:** ![lurker\_b](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@lurker\_b](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurker_b)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/31 "2001-11-03T05:42:49Z")
Of the 613 commandments, only the prohibitions against murder, idolatry, incest and adultery are so important that they cannot be violated to save a life. Judaism not only permits, but often requires a person to violate the commandments if necessary to save a life. [http://www.jewfaq.org](http://www.jewfaq.org) ---
**Author:** ![Kaje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kaje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaje)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/32 "2001-11-03T06:40:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lurker b \* > **Of the 613 commandments, only the prohibitions against murder, idolatry, incest and adultery are so important that they cannot be violated to save a life.** So what does that mean exactly? If you could save some important life (not your own) by worshipping an idol, jewish teaching (what writings are we talking about here again? Torah?OT?Talmud?) says that you aren’t allowed to do this… but what happens if you do? You’re immediately cast away from God are no longer Jewish and can never go to heaven? Are you still allowed to choose this option if you feel its a valid sacrifice? Is it instead just a “bad choice” that is could be redeemed by certain good choices? I suppose the Christian answer would involve free will and unending compassion/forgiveness, how about the jewish one? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/33 "2001-11-03T14:31:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KneadToKnow \* > Still searching. I give up. I thought perhaps something I had at home might have helped me with this, but to no avail. FWIW, I am under the impression that certain sects of Christianity (I’m thinking it’s one of the eastern Orthodox churches) observe Thursday or maybe Monday as their day of worship, but without a source to cite for that, I can’t assert that. I do know that [Seventh-Day Adventists](http://www.catholic.com/ANSWERS/tracts/adventsm.htm) observe Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/34 "2001-11-03T14:34:00Z")
Hmmm. That “.com” should have made me more suspicious. [Here](http://www.adventist.org/whoare/)’s a better link. ---
**Author:** ![Kaje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kaje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaje)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/35 "2001-11-03T16:31:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KneadToKnow \* > \*\*Hmmm. That “.com” should have made me more suspicious. [Here](http://www.adventist.org/whoare/)’s a better link. \*\* That links to [http://www.adventist.org/whoare](http://www.adventist.org/whoare)… did anybody else think that said “whore”? You’d think as a religious site they’d maybe avoid that particular similiarity ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/36 "2001-11-03T16:38:18Z")
One has to wonder: given discrepencys in calenders, etc., is there any reason to believe if it was Sunday in Rome, was it also Sunday in Antioch? At what point in time can we confirm this uniformity, for it is clearly the case **now** , but was it always? ---
**Author:** ![Kaje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kaje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaje)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/37 "2001-11-03T18:36:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*One has to wonder: given discrepencys in calenders, etc., is there any reason to believe if it was Sunday in Rome, was it also Sunday in Antioch? At what point in time can we confirm this uniformity, for it is clearly the case **now** , but was it always? \*\* I would think that this problem was solved long before Christianity with the Sabbath and all… it would be a pretty big deal to keep track and it’s not that difficult to count 7 sunsets… if need be people travelling between cities could be of assistance I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520/38 "2001-11-04T01:19:44Z")
Kaje: > [@](#): > > If you could save some important life (not your own) by worshipping an idol, jewish teaching (what writings are we talking about here again? Torah?OT?Talmud?) The Torah, as interpreted in the Talmud…except that the murder one is not Scripture based, but is derived from the logical doctrine “his blood is no redder than yours” (thus you cannot choose to spare your own life by murdering another). > [@](#): > > says that you aren’t allowed to do this… but what happens if you do? You’re immediately cast away from God are no longer Jewish and can never go to heaven? No. It means you have committed a sin (whereas with other commandments, to violate them for lifesaving purpose is not a sin). However, even sinners are still Jewish, and anyone can get into heaven if he has done more good deeds than sins…no single act (and especially not one done under duress as in the case you’re referring to!) can condemn a person, such a determination is made based on the balance of a lifetime of choices. > [@](#): > > Are you still allowed to choose this option if you feel its a valid sacrifice? No. > [@](#): > > Is it instead just a “bad choice” that is could be redeemed by certain good choices? See above. Chaim Mattis Keller [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theology-question/90520.md?page=1)