# Therapists aren't paid friends **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 21, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295 "2011-04-21T23:10:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/21 "2011-04-22T03:15:56Z")
Now let’s see what we got here… > [@NinetyWt](#): > > CBT is a way to exercise your mind into wellness. It is far superior to a codeine addiction because it creates freedom rather than dependence. CBT attempts to alter your way of thinking and change who you are. Codeine does the same thing. Both creates “freedom” although codeine requires constant use. CBT tells you to lie to yourself and codeine tells you to not give a fuck… > [@](#): > > I’m not understanding what you mean. You also have to trust your dentist to tell you which teeth need to be filled, and to perform that task in a workmanlike manner. Yet that doesn’t make you his/her friend, does it? Your mind is the only thing you have to yourself… Sharing that with others should require trust and friendship. There really isn’t anything to understand, if you don’t agree then you don’t agree… Me personally will only share the details of my personal problems with a friend. > [@](#): > > Again, I don’t understand your meaning here. Distracting someone from their problems doesn’t help, else ‘drowning your sorrows’ would actually help you rather than harm you. It’s not about distracting them, it is about showing them it isn’t the end of the world. It’s about showing them their mother dying is all a part of life. Say that happens, your mother died and you become depressed, a good friend provides sympathy but what if the person doesn’t come out of their depression? The good friends shows them they have to let go. YOU CANNOT bring your mother back, you have to let go… The same goes for any problems you can’t get over with or change, just let them go… What else provides ease in doing so? A GOOD FRIEND… Start listening to other peoples problems and your problems will become less extreme > [@NinetyWt](#): > > Are you saying you can only guess at your reasoning? No, I was trying to keep people like you away… ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/22 "2011-04-22T03:18:27Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Well, I don’t consider someone’s personal preferences “crazy”, so there you go. I came away from therapy free of my anxiety attacks and with better communication skills. I went for nine months, got what I needed and moved on. No one manipulated or abused me. > > Please know that you have revealed your thoughts and feelings and we’re not friends, so I’m a bit confused. Yes but you don’t know my problems ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/23 "2011-04-22T03:18:43Z")
Feel free to ignore my post, **shagnasty**. 🙂 I’ve never seen an auto mechanic come down hard on a charlatan. I don’t have a way to effect other therapists, other than not referring to them, which is what I do. I had a therapist renting from me and it bothered me so much that she consistently saw her clients late that I asked her to leave. I lost her rent money, but gained peace of mind. Does that count? I would certainly report someone that was doing something unethical, but doing a style of therapy I don’t prefer isn’t unethical. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/24 "2011-04-22T03:20:08Z")
> [@Hennessy](#): > > Wow I get attacked everywhere. Sorry if it seemed too blunt, I didn’t mean to attack you. Just trying to figure out where you’re coming from, so maybe I could help explain. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/25 "2011-04-22T03:21:48Z")
Jerry Pournelle who, like **Shagnasty** , for some reason came into contact with the world of academic psychology, psychiatry or something of that nature, notes that he and his friends ran an experiment to test some mental health professionals’ powers of differential diagnosis. They recruited “professional actors” (or maybe wannabes for that role), coached them in symptoms based on the official manual of mental illness symptoms and sent them off to get diagnosed. He says that diagnoses were pretty inconsistent across different “professionals” even for, literally, the textbook cases. Well, this too shall pass. Some fields do get their act together, sometimes after centuries of quackery. Other fields vanish to the accompaniment of general mockery, perhaps only to be replaced with new and improved forms of quackery. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/26 "2011-04-22T03:27:03Z")
> [@Hennessy](#): > > CBT attempts to alter your way of thinking and change who you are. Codeine does the same thing. Both creates “freedom” although codeine requires constant use. CBT tells you to lie to yourself and codeine tells you to not give a fuck… I disagree that CBT tells you to lie to yourself. It _is_ a way to change your patterns of thinking, but I also disagree that it changes who you are. In my experience, CBT is a method used to stop your brain from lying to you about reality. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Your mind is the only thing you have to yourself… Sharing that with others should require trust and friendship. There really isn’t anything to understand, if you don’t agree then you don’t agree… Me personally will only share the details of my personal problems with a friend. I liken it to a bullet in your arse. Sure, I don’t show my arse to everyone … but if I have a bullet in it, I surely will show it to the doctor so s/he can remove the bullet! Just the same way, if I have emotional garbage clogging up my psyche, I will show that to the therapist so that s/he can help me to remove it. > [@](#): > > It’s not about distracting them, it is about showing them it isn’t the end of the world. I think we’re talking about two different things here. If a person has a serious emotional/psychological issue, either they actively work to excise it or they let it fester. A sympathetic ear from a friend is nice, but won’t remove the problem. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/27 "2011-04-22T03:40:58Z")
> [@Hennessy](#): > > Yes but you don’t know my problems So what? It’s about be willing to reveal your thoughts, feelings and emotions, which you seem comforatble doing here. Problems are just another way to describe a subset of those. My problems aren’t so unique and special that my therapist probably hadn’t heard it before. If we kept talking and got to know each other more, you might reveal more and more about yourself. That’s what the therapist relationship was for me. We started small and as we leaned to communicate effectively and with trust we talked more. Frankly, I am less comfortable being weighed at my GP’s office than talking in private to a trusted therapist. You are not comfortable sharing your problems with a therapist. That’s your choice. Therapy might be way out of your comfort zone. But your choice is neither morally superior or inferior to mine- that I found someone I was comfortable sharing my problems with and getting feedback that helped me work through my situation was an incredibly positive for me. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/28 "2011-04-22T03:42:36Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > Feel free to ignore my post, **shagnasty**. 🙂 > > I’ve never seen an auto mechanic come down hard on a charlatan. I don’t have a way to effect other therapists, other than not referring to them, which is what I do. I had a therapist renting from me and it bothered me so much that she consistently saw her clients late that I asked her to leave. I lost her rent money, but gained peace of mind. Does that count? I would certainly report someone that was doing something unethical, but doing a style of therapy I don’t prefer isn’t unethical. That does count and good for you. There is also the subcategory of mental health professionals that do actual harm in return for pay. The first I encountered in that regard seemed hands on and good until he himself went a bit psycho. He made me go to an ATM and come back when I didn’t have exact payment for his visit and he couldn’t make change and wouldn’t let me carry over any underpayment despite no history of non-payment. The visit after that, he accused me of being ‘dirty’ on my last visit and forced me into a corner telling me that I would spend that session either scrubbing and vacuuming his entire office or I could pay him $500 and have a cleaning service do it and we could continue the session. I have no idea what he was talking about although he was obsessive about taking off shoes and keeping everything untouched while in his space. I didn’t try to fight back after he forced me into that corner and tried to talk him down during our session. Needless to say, I fought long and hard about what to do about that. I went back to the next session, fired him, and asked him to get help with his personal demons. Don’t think that is an isolated case though. My young daughter went to a session with a clinical psychologist over trouble was having focusing in school. The professional asked about home life and immediately started asking if I (her father) had ever touched her inappropriately. She said ‘yes’ meaning that I gave her a pat on the back when she had a sunburn without me realizing it and it hurt. My daughter explained it after she was asked to elaborate but the DSS calls were still triggered. "Just doing her legal duty’ don’t you know said the clinician? The clinician was helpful enough to coach us how to to reconcile a problem she created but some people have lost their kids to less stupidity. She never did get back to the original problem at hand before she got fired.. Thanks for that pointless legal exercise and hassle that we paid money for. I hope that you **Brynda** as a good clinician realize that this stuff is common in the profession and work to get them out. ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/29 "2011-04-22T03:48:48Z")
In the end, you and me and everyone else is always going to have problems… We cannot change that, some problems can be fixed and others cannot… Accepting those problems we can not fix and moving on is ALL we can do… It is essentially up to you and you alone to decide whether your going to move on or not… If you need help moving on, make some friends or dentists and listen to their problems, your problems will not hold the importance they used to. A lot of people have trouble hearing other peoples problems, that is selfish and those people become stuck in a cycle which revolves only around them… You aren’t my friend and I won’t share the details but to let you know where I’m coming from with this information, I am currently stuck in this cycle trying to break out. I may be making it sound too simple but life isn’t hard… Even people with serious conditions can move on and enjoy life… Ivory - Are we arguing that your therapist isn’t your friend? Agreed! He knows your problems but you don’t know his… Not a friendship, only half a friendship… My point must be that you can scratch out the middle man and have a full and complete friend… Without paying **ETA:** And receive the same benefits ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/30 "2011-04-22T04:12:10Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The only therapy approach that has empirical support that I am aware of is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy but I would be thrilled to be corrected on that. Keep in mind that Freudian psychoanalytic therapy was in vogue for decades before it ever got exposed yet countless people wasted big bucks on it. Mental health therapy does not have a good scientific history although I have no doubt it is getting better with the newer approaches as the hard scientific analyses come in. To be quite honest, i’m not willing to credit your analysis of the field. It smacks of subjective sour grapes, and nothing more. I have no particular interest in carrying water for the therapy profession. I’ve never undergone therapy myself, i don’t think i would find it very useful, and i have no doubt that (as in most professions) there are people and practices that don’t work. I’m happy to accept your reports of your own experience as a patient, but there’s nothing in your “analysis” so far that has been at all convincing as a comment on the profession as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/31 "2011-04-22T04:15:52Z")
Frankly, I don’t want to reveal some of the things I talked about with my therapist with my true friends. It was helpful to work through these issues with someone who was specifically not my friend. She was someone who was an objective sounding board, had tremendous skills and who had no vested interest in telling me what I wanted to hear. She didn’t gave to worry about hurting my feelings and I didnt worry about seeing her at a PTA function after revealing some deeply personal info. It wasn’t a friendship or half a friendship at all. I have friends who I talk to and listen to. That wasn’t what I needed. The relationship worked because it was professional, not a friendship. And frankly, my friends aren’t there to heal me. Support me, love me, listen to me, laugh with me. But how horrible to put them in a position to help me heal (which includes knowing when to move on from a problem). I would never put my friends in that position. This concept you have is a puzzlement to me. So don’t get therapy, but you might not want to keep telling me that my positive, healing experience was wrong and somehow less than. ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/32 "2011-04-22T04:42:46Z")
There is a difference between friends and friends… Your probably missing the latter ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/33 "2011-04-22T04:58:24Z")
> [@Hennessy](#): > > My point must be that you can scratch out the middle man and have a full and complete friend… Without paying **ETA:** And receive the same benefits Has your friend studied your problem in an academic setting? Does he have experience talking to other people with the same problem? Does he know results from the latest empirical research conducted on your problem? Can you be honest about your problem with your friend? Can you trust your friend not to be judgmental? Trust him to listen? Trust him to be patient with you? Trust him to tell you the truth if you don’t want to hear it? Trust him to be delicate with the truth? Can you rely on your friend to take the time to help you with your problem? Does your friend comes with all these benefits? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/34 "2011-04-22T05:36:08Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > \ > Therapy is about emotional support, sure, but it is also about helping my clients see different ways of viewing themselves and the world, different ways of coping with things they cannot change, and un-learning unhealthy ways of coping while learning new, healthier ways. \ That sounds like a good description of effective therapy. > [@Hennessy](#): > > \ > > I’ve bought a couple CBT books before and I just couldn’t accept the purpose of what it was offering. I may as well just get addicted to codeine. > I don’t really want to get into that though.\ In my experiences with CBT (for my own anxiety disorder and being a co-leader of a support group for people with anxiety disorders), you get out of CBT what you put in. > [@Hennessy](#): > > \ > CBT attempts to alter your way of thinking and change who you are. Codeine does the same thing. Both creates “freedom” although codeine requires constant use. CBT tells you to lie to yourself and codeine tells you to not give a fuck…\ I don’t think you understand CBT very well at all. If anything, CBT helps you _stop_ lying to yourself; to stop telling yourself unhelpful fictions throughout your day. ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/35 "2011-04-22T05:41:56Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > … Your bringing up no new points… But to answer your questionssssssssss No, my friend wouldn’t dare give me that much attention… That might be because I refuse to receive that much attention or it might be because I don’t need that much attention… That was the whole point, friends take the focus off of you and sorta equal things out. I know my friends problems and the ones they can’t change, we don’t talk about it, however if there is a problem that can be changed, we won’t talk about them but we will fix it without even having to focus on them… Look I can’t get personal with everyone on this subject as much as I would like to, your just gonna have to read what I wrote already and either accept it or don’t… If you accept it and want to go further, I’m not to decline anyone… I just can’t argue over this subject… I’m not here to argue, I’m here because I know people who are attracted to this type of thread usually has problems… I’m throwing an alternative out there… Your trying to tell me that some people HAVE to pay to be happy? I’ll tell you money is the root of all evil… And you won’t understand me for shit but I can’t do anything about that… It is not a science, problems are in everybody’s life… They always have been and always will… Fix what you can and let the rest settle… Don’t let problems you can’t fix take over your life… What doesn’t make sense about that? If I learned anything today its that you can’t help people… To the therapists and believers, do the problems get fixed or is an alternative less stressful way of thinking about them found? BTW, true friends don’t tell you what you want to hear, they will give the cold hard facts… If you take it personally, well then you just lost your friend… The friends who tell you what you want to hear should be considered associates… ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/36 "2011-04-22T05:47:13Z")
**Cat Whisperer** , I liked what you said about CBT helping you stop lying to yourself. I like to use the image of anxiety as a bully who wants to make you back down and stay home. The way the bully does this is by lying to you, by telling you that others are making fun of you, etc (insert client’s fears here). I then ask them what they can say to the bully to make him back down, what truth they can use to combat his lies. Another example of lies clients believe has to do with trauma. All too often, they believe the lie that they deserved the abuse they suffered. ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/37 "2011-04-22T05:48:57Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > In my experiences with CBT (for my own anxiety disorder and being a co-leader of a support group for people with anxiety disorders), you get out of CBT what you put in. That’s how it works with anything > [@](#): > > I don’t think you understand CBT very well at all. If anything, CBT helps you _stop_ lying to yourself; to stop telling yourself unhelpful fictions throughout your day. Maybe I don’t understand it or maybe you don’t understand it… I guess I’ll hear you out though but work at my pace… Give me a few examples of unhelpful fictions you may be telling yourself… ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/38 "2011-04-22T05:49:30Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > To add to my post above, how do you feel about studies that show that almost all therapy approaches are either useless or equivalent to placebo treatment except sometimes Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for specific conditions? This is the Straight Dope after all. I don’t know much about the quality of the studies, but there is some evidence in favor of [short-term dynamic psychotherapy](http://focus.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/3/3/407), as well. ---
**Author:** ![Khaki\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Khaki\_Campbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khaki_Campbell)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/39 "2011-04-22T05:50:50Z")
How does this “therapist” thing distinguish itself from the psychoanalysis quackery ? (I know nothing about those - instead of wasting money on ‘psycho-’ people, I prefer to waste it on drugs, at least they have an effect) ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/40 "2011-04-22T05:55:49Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > **Cat Whisperer** , I liked what you said about CBT helping you stop lying to yourself. I like to use the image of anxiety as a bully who wants to make you back down and stay home. The way the bully does this is by lying to you, by telling you that others are making fun of you, etc (insert client’s fears here). I then ask them what they can say to the bully to make him back down, what truth they can use to combat his lies. > > Another example of lies clients believe has to do with trauma. All too often, they believe the lie that they deserved the abuse they suffered. Oh yes, that is what I remember about CBT now… Maybe I can’t do CBT because my mind is too simple, requires a bit of imagination if you ask me… I remember I made a technique when I was reading about CBT but I can’t remember what it related to so I won’t share it… It didn’t work though, but again that is just because I lost my imagination when I was a kid… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295.md?page=3)