# Therapists aren't paid friends **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 21, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295 "2011-04-21T23:10:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/41 "2011-04-22T06:34:08Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > To be quite honest, i’m not willing to credit your analysis of the field. It smacks of subjective sour grapes, and nothing more. I gave some sour grapes based on personal experience. I also claimed that it probably works in some cases. Being the Straight Dope and based on real academic experience, I did ask for cites for good evidence that some approaches work more than placebo treatment. The most reputable ones I am aware of only give positive evidence for Cognitive Behavioral Therapy in general. Are the others just a sham, placebo (possibly effective but nonspecific to the treatment), or only effective in limited cases? That is a simple question that we would ask here or water dowsers or faith healers regardless of antidotes from anyone. I am not aware of any strong evidence that talk therapy in general works better than placebo other than through isolated domains and studies. That is an honest question and has nothing to do with me. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/42 "2011-04-22T06:54:41Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I gave some sour grapes based on personal experience. I also claimed that it probably works in some cases. Being the Straight Dope and based on real academic experience, I did ask for cites for good evidence that some approaches work more than placebo treatment. The most reputable ones I am aware of only give positive evidence for Cognitive Behavioral Therapy in general. Are the others just a sham, placebo (possibly effective but nonspecific to the treatment), or only effective in limited cases? That is a simple question that we would ask here or water dowsers or faith healers regardless of antidotes from anyone. I am not aware of any strong evidence that talk therapy in general works better than placebo other than through isolated domains and studies. That is an honest question and has nothing to do with me. There’s also researching suggesting that [Dialectical Behavior Therapy](http://www.behavioraltech.com/resources/whatisdbt.cfm) works for Borderline Personality Disorder and substance abuse. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/43 "2011-04-22T07:27:42Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Being the Straight Dope and based on real academic experience, I did ask for cites for good evidence that some approaches work more than placebo treatment. Actually, the first statement you made about actual evidence was: > [@Shagnasty](#): > > To add to my post above, how do you feel about studies that show that almost all therapy approaches are either useless or equivalent to placebo treatment except sometimes Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for specific conditions? This is the Straight Dope after all. > > \*\*I will give you plenty of cites \*\*but you should have those handy being in that specific profession that generates those studies. No-one else except you has been making sweeping statements about the ineptness of the whole profession. People have, for the most part, simply been noting that therapy has worked (or not worked) for them. You’re the one who claimed to have the evidence that the whole profession is largely a useless bunch of grifters. Also, while i’m sure that there are perfectly good ways to study the effectiveness of various types of therapy, your claim that they are equivalent to placebo is almost completely beside the point. In cases where people go to therapy to help with things like anxiety, getting over trauma, etc., if the therapy gets them to a situation where they manage to control or move beyond or otherwise deal with their problems, then it has, by definition, worked. ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/44 "2011-04-22T11:37:51Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > So don’t get therapy, but you might not want to keep telling me that my positive, healing experience was wrong and somehow less than. I think this needs to be repeated. It feels like people are getting heated based on their limited (or lack of) experience. And with that, I’m off to go see my psychologist. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/45 "2011-04-22T11:42:58Z")
I agree with not a paid friend. Friends are usually too involved with you to be objective. And as a person who’s had panic attacks, friends can actually be enabling rather than helpful. (Though I assure you they mean well) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/46 "2011-04-22T12:38:59Z")
> [@Hennessy](#): > > There is a difference between friends and friends… Your probably missing the latter I am trying to honestly answer your assertion that friends would be better than therapists with specific reasons I believe that a therapist, by virtue of not being a friend, is a better choice. You respond with this. Charming. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/47 "2011-04-22T12:46:40Z")
> [@Hennessy](#): > > Accepting those problems we can not fix and moving on is ALL we can do… I’m sorry, but this is just incorrect. That isn’t “all” we can do. > [@](#): > > And receive the same benefits You absolutely will not recieve the same benefits. As I said above, is your friend capable of performing surgery to remove a bullet from your body? Neither is s/he capable of helping you overcome serious mental/emotional problems. I really get the feeling that you haven’t experienced these deeper kinds of problems. Otherwise you wouldn’t tallk about it so lightly. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/48 "2011-04-22T12:59:58Z")
> [@Hennessy](#): > > CBT attempts to alter your way of thinking and change who you are. Codeine does the same thing. Both creates “freedom” although codeine requires constant use. CBT tells you to lie to yourself and codeine tells you to not give a fuck… I think you’re misinterpreting what the goal of CBT is. It’s not to reshape your mind so you don’t care, rather it’s to raise your own internal awareness about what you’re thinking and why, and beyond that, provides strategies to more accurately assess situations. I’ll use a personal example- I’ve been going to therapy for about a year for depression and stress which was brought on by a miscarriage and a major (for the worse) job change. What CBT did for me is to make me think about what was bothering me- primarily, it was fear of failure- that I’d not do a good job, get fired, etc… It taught me to be able to recognize when I’m thinking that way, and interrupt that thought, and analyze it- what am I feeling, and why am I feeling that way? We also did exercises to evaluate what past emotions and events were still affecting me- for example, I was tagged as an extremely gifted child early on, and I always felt like I was expected to excel above and beyond everyone else- like just being successful wasn’t enough, and that drove that fear of failure. It also taught me to realistically face those emotions- for me, it was via rational evaluation of consequences. For example, I can always find another job, I haven’t had a history of failure, just because something worked a certain way at a different company doesn’t mean it’ll work the same here, etc… It didn’t make me not care about things at all, but what it did do is provide an internal framework for rationally evaluating my own thoughts and emotions, and to apply strategies and exercises to put things in perspective, lower stress, etc… Very worthwhile stuff, if you ask me. I think that if you could teach this to children growing up as part of teaching coping skills, they’d be much better off for it. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/49 "2011-04-22T13:06:43Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Very worthwhile stuff, if you ask me. I think that if you could teach this to children growing up as part of teaching coping skills, they’d be much better off for it. > **[Raising Resilient Children : Fostering Strength, Hope, and Optimism in Your...](https://www.amazon.com/Raising-Resilient-Children-Fostering-Strength/dp/0809297655)** > > Raising Resilient Children : Fostering Strength, Hope, and Optimism in Your Child \[Robert Brooks, Sam Goldstein\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Raising Resilient Children : Fostering Strength, Hope, and Optimism in Your Child You might find this child-rearing advice book interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/50 "2011-04-22T14:56:44Z")
Another annoying thing I hear: My x (usually husband) doesn’t believe in therapists. I always want to answer “Ooooo, does that make me a mythical being, like a leprechan? Do I get magical powers?” but I don’t. Except on the inside, for a quiet internal giggle. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/51 "2011-04-22T16:10:16Z")
> [@Hennessy](#): > > Maybe I don’t understand it or maybe you don’t understand it… I guess I’ll hear you out though but work at my pace… Give me a few examples of unhelpful fictions you may be telling yourself… Here’s an example list of cognitive distortions that are often positively affected by CBT. [http://www.healthymind.com/s-distortions.html](http://www.healthymind.com/s-distortions.html) You appear to be putting out a common fallacy of over-generalization here, by the way: “I can get by without any therapy or outside help other than untrained friends, therefore EVERYONE can do that.” This tells me that you probably have never had any serious mental illness. That’s not a slam on you–I have found that even people who really desperately WANT to understand how mental illness feels and works (like my mom, after my severe depression and attempted suicide back in college) can’t really wrap their minds around it. By definition, it’s something different than normal feelings of sadness or “feeling down”. ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Chance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8baadc/32.png) [@Fat\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/52 "2011-04-22T17:31:15Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Here’s an example list of cognitive distortions that are often positively affected by CBT. [http://www.healthymind.com/s-distortions.html](http://www.healthymind.com/s-distortions.html) > > You appear to be putting out a common fallacy of over-generalization here, by the way: “I can get by without any therapy or outside help other than untrained friends, therefore EVERYONE can do that.” This tells me that you probably have never had any serious mental illness. That’s not a slam on you–I have found that even people who really desperately WANT to understand how mental illness feels and works (like my mom, after my severe depression and attempted suicide back in college) can’t really wrap their minds around it. By definition, it’s something different than normal feelings of sadness or “feeling down”. Yes. Read that link, and then think about having your brain do some of those things (or most in my case!!) and being unable to stop it. You can’t choose to not feel or think it. Those distortions almost pre-exist in your thoughts before you can even question them. It just is the world as you experience it. As Zerial said, if you haven’t experienced it, you just can’t understand it. as for me, therapy and meds changed my life. ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/53 "2011-04-22T19:04:18Z")
Y’all shouldn’t be so quick to guess where I’m coming from… I’m going to have to retire from this thread, so… Congratulations on your successful therapy and CBT. This is the opinion forum and my opinion stands… If I had successful therapy I couldn’t help but consider someone who changed my life a friend… That includes the doctor who put my new heart in… ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/54 "2011-04-22T19:09:17Z")
> [@Hennessy](#): > > If I had successful therapy I couldn’t help but consider someone who changed my life a friend… So we’re on an idiosyncratic definition of friend? That’s…fine, I guess, but would have been helpful for this post to come up significantly earlier in the conversation if you were meaning to not be misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/55 "2011-04-22T19:19:35Z")
Yeah I just figured this thread was a dead end and a waste of life, just like therapy… ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/56 "2011-04-22T19:32:35Z")
You sound like some of the people that come to my support group, **Hennessy**. We can’t help people who refuse to be helped, or refuse to help themselves. I’d say you’re more invested in being right or feeling lousy than you are in getting better, but I don’t know you. Maybe you’re afraid of giving it a good try and not having it work. We play all kinds of twisted, convoluted games in our minds to make ourselves feel bad. ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/57 "2011-04-22T19:57:33Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > **Hennessy**. We can’t help people who refuse to be helped, or refuse to help themselves. I’d say you’re more invested in being right or feeling lousy than you are in getting better, but I don’t know you. Good eye captain… You cannot change me, I’ll only allow myself to do that… But I’m no different from anyone else. No matter what you say to me, it’s always going to be up to me to accept your offer and make the change, just like anyone else… If I’m too stubborn to not see what is not making me happy, then I will rot until I’ve had enough… I’m stuck in my ways because I believe friends are what help people get out of their ways… I’m stuck in my ways because I believe if you have no friends it is because you don’t want any. Of course, a lot of people grow up never having a real friend, they label people they associate with as friends. Name some reasons why people come into therapy… Do people come in already knowing why they are depressed most of the time or do you have to help them figure it out? ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/58 "2011-04-22T21:00:07Z")
Hey, **Hennessy** , when come back, bring punctuation. People usually know what their symptoms are (I feel lousy, tired all the time, sad, or whatever) and sometimes even have guessed their diagnosis. Sometimes they know the underlying reason, such as a history of abuse, or overly critical, perfectionistic parents, but sometimes they haven’t made the connection. ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/59 "2011-04-22T21:16:06Z")
I come back with what I know… Obviously you can understand me so it shouldn’t be too big of a deal. So lets use the perfectionistic (is that a word?) parents example… You say that haven’t made the connection, what connection are you speaking of? That is the reason they don’t feel adequate and therefore are depressed? How do the two of you confirm this connection and confirm that this is the reason for the depression? Then, I’m guessing the next step is the solution, what is the solution you would offer for the example situation? ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295/60 "2011-04-22T21:35:51Z")
It doesn’t even matter though… If y’all charge to help people then y’all aren’t doing any good in this world, even if it does work… I don’t support the method and I never will… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/therapists-arent-paid-friends/579295.md?page=4)