# There a special place in Hell for those who backstab their friends... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2006, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207 "2006-10-12T15:28:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/81 "2006-10-14T03:54:27Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] **ExtraKun** , has he said anything to you since the presentation? I wouldn’t let him know that it bothered you. [/QUOTE] He tried to carry on as if it is life as normal, but my treatment of him is still rather cold. He never said anything about the presentation, just the usual “hi” and “bye” stuff. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/82 "2006-10-14T05:35:31Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Mhendo, the concept of friends shouldn’t take that much effort to explain. The fact that you find it so inexplicable causes me to repeat a question already asked - do you have any friends? [/QUOTE] Plenty. Not only that, but many of them are academics, and none of them cry like a baby when i disagree with them in a scholarly setting. And you continue to weasel, refusing to address the actual issue of what level of academic interaction friends should be allowed to engage in while in an academic setting. Everything you’ve said (or, more correctly, not said) suggests that you believe any question or disagreement would be a betrayal. I guess it’s possible you really are that stupid, but i prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt. So quit weaseling and declare yourself. Tell me what type of behaviour is and is not acceptable in situations such as those described in the OP. I’ve answered your question, so answer the ones i asked you, to wit: > [@](#): > > If the question would have been perfectly acceptable coming from anyone else, why is it not acceptable coming from a friend? > > Or, to put it more generally, what types of questions can friends reasonably ask in an academic setting without being considered traitors to the friendship? Where should the line be drawn? Should friends just shut up altogether? Should they lob soft balls to make you look good? and > [@](#): > > Is there any circumstance when questioning or correcting a friend in an academic setting would _not_ constitute an attack or a betrayal of trust, in your opinion? If you’re not even willing to address that issue, but prefer to simply keep repeating the same assumptions that i’m asking you to defend and explain, then you can go fuck yourself, and i will consider my participation in this thread at an end. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/83 "2006-10-14T06:47:25Z")
Mhendo, I’m afraid you’re never going to understand this. I can point out the basics: you help your friends, you don’t hurt your friends, you trust your friends, your friends help you, your friends don’t hurt you, your friends trust you. But it’s a relationship, not a set of rules. For most of us it’s obvious whether someone is a friend or not and we don’t need to be told how to be a friend. However, it appears that it’s an alien concept to you (which I guess explains your bitterness) and I feel sorry for you because of that. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/84 "2006-10-14T07:56:12Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] I shall unleash my army of pinstriped zombies with their spreadsheets of _doom_! MWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!! [/QUOTE] I’m Phil from accounting, no other demons trolls or zombies were available at this time. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/85 "2006-10-14T15:07:39Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Mhendo, I’m afraid you’re never going to understand this. [/quote] You mean your irrationality on this subject? You’re right about that. [QUOTE=Little Nemo] I can point out the basics: you help your friends, you don’t hurt your friends, you trust your friends, your friends help you, your friends don’t hurt you, your friends trust you. [/quote] Finally you say something that makes a modicum of sense. That’s exactly how i feel about all my friends. And i realize that one of them pointing out an error that i’ve made, or disagreeing with me, doesn’t mean that they’re trying to hurt me, and doesn’t mean that we’re no longer friends. [QUOTE=Little Nemo] But it’s a relationship, not a set of rules. For most of us it’s obvious whether someone is a friend or not and we don’t need to be told how to be a friend. However, it appears that it’s an alien concept to you (which I guess explains your bitterness) and I feel sorry for you because of that. [/QUOTE] And i feel sorry for you if your friendships are so fragile, so fraught with constant concern over whether you’ll offend them, that you tiptoe around one another in order not to cause offence, and consider it a mortal slight to express a difference of opinion or correct a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/86 "2006-10-14T16:44:14Z")
[QUOTE= **ExtraKun**] , has he said anything to you since the presentation? I wouldn’t let him know that it bothered you. So he heard your presentation before you gave it and didn’t say anthing about the mistake until class? Nice guy. [/QUOTE] I think, up until you hit this particular thing, you can chalk it up to what happens in acadamia. However, once you hit the fact he knew what you were going to say, and waited to hang you, your instincts are right. This is not a friend. I would stop saying Hi and bye. You are not being overly sensitive. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/87 "2006-10-14T16:50:56Z")
Arg… preview is my friend… this is what i meant to point out in that last post. [QUOTE=ExtraKun] Actually, c) is the biggest kicker. **He has heard us presented numerous times** (did I mention that actually his team and my team are actually one big gang of friends who do just everything together?)\*\* Yet he waited till then to clarify our mistake.\*\* [/QUOTE] If not for this, it could be counted as just correcting a mistake. With this, I see someone I would not want to be around ever again. He used the fact he had seen you practice to set you up. That is not a friend. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/88 "2006-10-14T16:55:25Z")
This isn’t that complicated. 1. **ExtraKun** befriended \*\*‘Bob’ \*\* despite his friends not liking him because he felt a bit sorry for him and brought him into his circle of friends. 2.\*\* ExtraKun \*\* was working in one group, **‘Bob’** in the other, but both groups included **Kuns** group of friends and they all worked together on their presentations. 1. Both groups practiced their presentation several times so everyone in both groups were aware of what the other group was going to present. They were helping each other. 2. **"Bob’** gave his presentation 3. **ExtraKun** gave his presentation. Instead of informing **ExtraKun** of any errors in his presentation while they practiced several times, he waited until he was in front of the class to correct him. 4. **ExtraKun** felt he was stabbed in the back because **Bob** waited to try to embarrras him in front of the class to explain an error instead of informing him while they practiced and were helping each other. > [@](#): > > At any rate, his stunt got noticed and another group told me something regarding that character. It seems that my friend made this a rather regular habit and caused some bad feelings last semster. Hence I guess this is just his personality/habit, and it’s nothing really personal, and I am willing to let it pass. This wasn’t an academic interation, it was a case of **Bob** being a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/89 "2006-10-14T16:58:52Z")
[QUOTE=furlibusea] Arg… preview is my friend… this is what i meant to point out in that last post. If not for this, it could be counted as just correcting a mistake. With this, I see someone I would not want to be around ever again. He used the fact he had seen you practice to set you up. That is not a friend. [/QUOTE] Thank you Furlibusea. Wanna watch Sponge Bob with me and share my fries? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/90 "2006-10-14T17:00:26Z")
[QUOTE=furlibusea] If not for this, it could be counted as just correcting a mistake. With this, I see someone I would not want to be around ever again. He used the fact he had seen you practice to set you up. That is not a friend. [/QUOTE] I should have pointed out earlier that my arguments in this thread revolve around the more general issue of friends interacting with friends in these academic settings. If the OP’s situation is as he described it, then his “friend” is indeed a dick, and not much of a friend. Asking the question in class when you’ve just heard the presentation for the first time is one thing; asking the same question in class when you’re heard the presentation before, and had the opportunity to correct the error on previous occasions, is something else altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/91 "2006-10-14T17:06:59Z")
I thought you said you were going to stop participating in this thread. I guess your friends aren’t the only ones who have reason not to trust you. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/92 "2006-10-14T17:17:11Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] I thought you said you were going to stop participating in this thread. I guess your friends aren’t the only ones who have reason not to trust you. [/QUOTE] Fuck off you cowardly little cuntslime. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/93 "2006-10-14T18:06:00Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] Thank you Furlibusea. Wanna watch Sponge Bob with me and share my fries? 😉 [/QUOTE] Can it be Animaniacs? ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/94 "2006-10-14T18:29:52Z")
Good God, is this still going on? The university experience is necessarily both cooperative and competitive. A person who neglects to warn you of a flaw in your presentation so that he can take advantage of it to look good at your expense later is admittedly not your best friend: **mhendo** and I have long since conceded that. Nonetheless, the challenge itself might have come from _anyone_, even a stranger the OP would concede had no obligation to him and his, and the fact of the matter is, if the challenge had been satisfactorily _answered_, as it should have been regardless of the challenger’s name, there would be no issue here. The guy **Extrakun** _thought_ was a friend performed the same function, perhaps for selfish reasons, that strangers or even true friends _should_ have performed out of self-interest, and the result would have been _exactly the same_. The clash of ideas is what the university experience is all about. Getting challenged about your usage in a college seminar room is about as meek and mild a contest as I can imagine. The point is, friend **Extrakun** may be right to characterize _this_ antagonist as “not his friend”, but it would be wrong for him to think all those who disagree with him are in the same boat. Oh. And, **Little Nemo** , it’s time for you to play the quiet game. I’d seek **mhendo** , who will apparently tell me _exactly_ how I’m wrong about things, as a friend, long before I seek the approval of people who can’t tell friendship from sycophancy. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/95 "2006-10-14T19:02:09Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] Oh. And, **Little Nemo** , it’s time for you to play the quiet game. I’d seek **mhendo** , who will apparently tell me _exactly_ how I’m wrong about things, as a friend, long before I seek the approval of people who can’t tell friendship from sycophancy. [/QUOTE] agreed ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mad_Hermit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/96 "2006-10-14T20:48:32Z")
It’s beautiful to see the total disconnect here- academia versus socialization. The OP shows emotion, and all the argument is against his academic misstep; not how he can reconcile an emotion of betrayal. All that is missing is someone telling him to “suck it up and move on.” No one answered the question in a way that would help the OP deal with his perceived backstabbing, other than a reference to the most important point- did you talk to the “friend” about this? Yes, the OP could be in the wrong, but how does he get over this for his own well being? ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/97 "2006-10-14T22:29:08Z")
[QUOTE=iamthewalrus(:3=] I don’t think that I can properly align myself on this issue until I see a definition, in your own words, of _first mover advantage_. [/QUOTE] Madam, I’m Adam. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/98 "2006-10-15T06:15:56Z")
[QUOTE=The Mad Hermit] Yes, the OP could be in the wrong, but how does he get over this for his own well being? [/QUOTE] I guess I just have to suckit up and move on 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/99 "2006-10-15T15:44:31Z")
Good for you, **ExtraKun**. I _do_ wish for you more honorable companions as well as more perspicacity in your scholastic endeavors. Please remember, though, the predisposition of people in that part of the world (where I was born, roughly) to resolve things via argument rather than quiet consensus. It’s a different, but not necessarily an incorrect, means of arriving at a conclusion. Best regards and wishes. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207/100 "2006-10-15T17:13:33Z")
So let me see if I have this straight. Mhendo claims that publicly being called out is a healthy part of the academic process. I, and others, politely point out that we disagree. Mhendo rebuts us with logic like “Fuck off you mouthbreathing moron” and “Fuck off you cowardly little cuntslime”. Mhendo’s supporters step in to ask me to be quiet because I’m upsetting him. Yes, this has certainly convinced me on how an academic debate should work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-a-special-place-in-hell-for-those-who-backstab-their-friends/376207.md?page=6)