# There are certain things one should not complain to the boss about. This is one. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 12, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527 "2012-09-12T17:27:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/1 "2012-09-12T17:27:30Z")
I manage an inside sales team. The account executives under me call, email, and occasionally visit small business clients in geographic sales territories. Mostly they work to retain old business and build new business with those clients; sometimes (but not often) they prospect for new customers. A few months ago, one of my account execs, “Ginger,” got a call (on her cell phone, on the weekend) from a man, “Barry,” who had been referred to her by a client in her territory. Barry was in the process of opening a new business and had set up an account for our services, and he had some questions; once he got going, he would be spending between $100 and $200 on services which both we and our biggest competitor. Ginger did the research to answer his question on her own time. Checking, she saw that Barry had already been assigned to someone else on our team, so she sent me an email letting me know about the opportunity. I sent an email to “Tim,” the account exec to whom Barry had been assigned, telling him to call Barry and do what was necessary to close this account. A week passes. Ginger gets another call from Barry, who has some more questions. He hasn’t heard from Tim yet. Ginger verifies that she has the right contact information (landline, cell, & email), calls him back on her work line so the call is automatically logged, and answers his question; then she sends another email to Tim with her notes (including the fact that Barry will be ready to start using our service in two weeks and is in negotiations with our biggest competitor) and CCs me on it. I go to Tim in person to tell him to give Barry a call ASAP; he promises to do so. Another week passes. Ginger gets another call from Barry, who _still_ hasn’t heard from Tim, and who has a proposal from our competitor on his desk. She puts Barry off for a few minutes while she talks to me. Tim is off that day, and I’m pissed at him anyway, so I tell her to put together a counter-proposal. Doing so takes about six hours of her time. The next day (when Tim is back in the office, incidentally) she calls Barry and not only closes the business, but _persuades the customer that our services are worth paying more than the competitor was suggesting_; in other words, she closes on value, not on price. Barry signs with us and immediately delivers the business he promised. In the meanwhile, I’ve taken his account out of Tim’s territory and placed it in Ginger’s so she gets credit (=commission) for the sale. That was a month ago. This morning Tim comes into my office to complain about Ginger stealing his customers–specifically Barry. When I point out that both she and I sent him multiple emails about Barry, he claims that he’s too busy to read his emails; he thinks I should have hunted him down when Barry called that last time, or had him present Ginger’s proposal. As it is, he feels – his word – “raped” by both of us. I did not laugh in his face. I will remember this come evaluation time, though. Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/2 "2012-09-12T17:45:29Z")
Tim sounds like a charmer. His choice of words is interesting, too - most folks would consider that inappropriate language for an office setting. For that matter, plenty of folks would consider that inappropriate for any setting at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/3 "2012-09-12T17:46:29Z")
Also - how is anyone in a modern office too busy to read email? If you work in an office, email is almost certainly your primary means of communication with other staff. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/4 "2012-09-12T17:55:05Z")
Unless this is far out of character for Tim and he has other strong qualifications, he doesn’t belong on the team, does he? At best, he might be a quirky and inconsistent contributor. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/5 "2012-09-12T17:56:19Z")
For some reason he reminds me of a boat anchor. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/6 "2012-09-12T18:12:05Z")
What a doucheface. He may be busy and not like email, but if that’s a preferred method of communication for your boss, you better damn well use it. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/7 "2012-09-12T18:41:13Z")
So, um. Can you fire him? I’m no manager, but it sounds like you have cause to fire him for incompetence and insubordination. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/8 "2012-09-12T18:59:25Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > So, um. Can you fire him? I’m no manager, but it sounds like you have cause to fire him for incompetence and insubordination. He’s competent in some ways, though incompetent in many others. I wouldn’t call his behavior this morning outright insubordination; his demeanor was calm and polite, belying the utter ridiculousness and folly of the complaint. That said, I’m tempted to write him up for ignoring a specific directive. He closed other business during that time, though, and his productivity numbers (time spent on the phone, unique customers contacted per week), so it’s not like he’s been _completely_ goofing off. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/9 "2012-09-12T19:21:16Z")
This isn’t the first time someone here has posted about someone they work with who doesn’t read emails - that’s a big ol’ WTF? Email is here to stay, and it’s a huge part of every business in the developed world - adapt or die, man. I get that he’s a salesguy and probably wants to speak to everyone in person or on the phone so he can win them over with his charming personality ( :rolleyes: ), but get over it. I would indeed write him up. When your boss tells you to do something, you do it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/10 "2012-09-12T19:24:57Z")
Incidentally, I just noticed an egregious typo in the OP; Barry was going to be spending about $100 A DAY with us. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/11 "2012-09-12T19:26:32Z")
I figured there were some things missing from that line. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/12 "2012-09-12T19:34:43Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I figured there were some things missing from that line. 🙂 I blame the Canadians. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/13 "2012-09-12T19:35:21Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I go to Tim in person to tell him to give Barry a call ASAP; he promises to do so. His email excuse doesn’t hold water. He was a lazy ass and he doesn’t like that it cost him money. I don’t think I could have stopped myself from laughing in his face. ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/14 "2012-09-12T19:37:09Z")
I used to work with a guy who never listened to his voicemail. I heard him dial into the voicemail system once. “You have 179 new messages” (they age off after two weeks so that was two weeks worth). He screened all of his calls but would only check the voicemail when it was his wife calling. If it was a customer he ignored the call and the voicemail. Like I said, I _used to_ work with him. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/15 "2012-09-12T19:39:21Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > He closed other business during that time, though, and his productivity numbers (time spent on the phone, unique customers contacted per week), so it’s not like he’s been _completely_ goofing off. You track time on the phone and unique contacts to make sure your salespeople are working? I’ve never officially been in sales myself, but when I’m helping our sales staff the only numbers anyone cared about were gross sales/profit. If my GM asked how things were going, telling her how many customers I phoned would **not** be considered an answer. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/16 "2012-09-12T19:48:57Z")
> [@The\_Lurker\_Above](#): > > You track time on the phone and unique contacts to make sure your salespeople are working? > > I’ve never officially been in sales myself, but when I’m helping our sales staff the only numbers anyone cared about were gross sales/profit. If my GM asked how things were going, telling her how many customers I phoned would **not** be considered an answer. :: shrugs :: I didn’t design the system. But both phone time & customer contact time can be germane for several reasons. For one, it often takes a few months for a new contract to start bringing in revenue; tracking phone time and contact time shows that the person is working as we want them too. Also, sometimes business will be lost for reasons outside a salesperson’s control. Business X may have been on an upward trend for months and months because of a salesperson’s diligence and skill, only to suddenly crash because BX’s corporate office decided to switch to our competitor company-wide. When this happens it may well cost an account exec much or all of his bonus; but if he can show by his productivity numbers that he’s been working his territory as the company requires, his _job_ won’t be in jeopardy. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/17 "2012-09-12T19:52:40Z")
Is Tim’s IRL name Herb Tarlich? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/18 "2012-09-12T20:00:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Also, sometimes business will be lost for reasons outside a salesperson’s control. Business X may have been on an upward trend for months and months because of a salesperson’s diligence and skill, only to suddenly crash because BX’s corporate office decided to switch to our competitor company-wide. When this happens it may well cost an account exec much or all of his bonus; but if he can show by his productivity numbers that he’s been working his territory as the company requires, his _job_ won’t be in jeopardy. I get why a salesperson would want to have some ass-covering metrics to point to when sales dipped for reasons outside their control, as happens to every salesperson eventually. I’m just surprised that your company seems to be doing it automatically. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/19 "2012-09-12T20:08:29Z")
> [@The\_Lurker\_Above](#): > > I get why a salesperson would want to have some ass-covering metrics to point to when sales dipped for reasons outside their control, as happens to every salesperson eventually. I’m just surprised that your company seems to be doing it automatically. Well, bear in mind that a lot of their duties overlaps with customer service (even though we have a separate customer service department). Clients who spend $100/day needn’t call the customer service number and get a random schmo even when it’s a customer service; they call their account manager, who knows the details of their business with us. Account execs get paid a base salary for the customer service type stuff and a bonus for new/increased business; a productivity metric is necessary for the former to help decide yearly raises. (Not that those are very common any more. :() ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527/20 "2012-09-12T20:59:46Z")
I worked at a place where we had a Tim, always had excuses for not producing, but never seemed to have time to work the processs and make the sale when someone handed it to them on a platter. Sadly for us, our Tim ended up taking over the territory of a very good hard working guy who had major medical issues and had to stop working. Took about a year before enough customers left to make management do something about it. This same person also used to do things like 'when the sales manager took everyone out to lunch would order 2 entrees and have one packed to go so they got free dinner too. Personally I think folks like this need to be fired post haste but apparently event these wastes of good carbon seem to have some kind of value to management. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-certain-things-one-should-not-complain-to-the-boss-about-this-is-one/634527.md?page=2)