# There are No Gays in Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 25, 2007, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375 "2007-09-25T00:56:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/61 "2007-09-26T01:50:05Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Ahmadinejad’s attitude may be based in the fact that [some Koranic and Hadithic verses condemn homosexuality,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Islam) or at least are commonly interpreted that way. (As with the Bible, there are arguments on the other side.) [/QUOTE] What does that have to do with the actual existence of gays in Iran? Even if he was reacting to the proscriptions of his faith, wouldn’t the statement be “We condemn homosexuals in our country because our faith says to do so,” and not the laughable, “They don’t exist because we refuse to acknowledge the fact[, even though we recently hanged a few].” (See ghastly picture link upthread.) ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/62 "2007-09-26T02:05:11Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] He’s not a dictator and you know it. No one person in the Iranian government has that kind of power, not since Khomeini passed on. [/QUOTE] He still has the power to ensure that people are killed because of what they believe and how they act, no matter how innocently those actions would be in the west. So, I retract the moniker of ‘dictator’. Maybe ‘wannabe dictator’ would be more appropriate. Better now? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/63 "2007-09-26T04:12:28Z")
[QUOTE=Uzi] He still has the power to ensure that people are killed because of what they believe and how they act . . . [/QUOTE] How does **he** do that? I don’t think he can order anyone executed without trial, he can’t say what is or is not illegal, and the Supreme Leader, not the president, commands the armed forces and declares war. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/64 "2007-09-26T04:17:31Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I can’t imagine sharing a stage with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and thinking “I have a unique chance to speak truth to speak truth to power here, but I’d better be polite to this crazy fuck.” Good for Bollinger for having a little pride, and maybe some responsibility. [/QUOTE] It’s not a matter of being polite. It’s a matter of not giving the guy the opportunity to play the victim and get any sympathy. Ahmedinejad isnt’ a dictactor, either petty or great. The president of Iran is more a figurehead than anything else-- the real power lies with the clerics and the Council of Guardians. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/65 "2007-09-26T12:13:04Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Ahmedinejad isnt’ a dictactor, either petty or great. [/QUOTE] Well, he is a [torturer and executioner](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/ahmadinejad.htm), so perhaps he knows more about the persecution of gays and dissidents than most world leaders. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/66 "2007-09-26T13:01:15Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Well, he is a [torturer and executioner](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/ahmadinejad.htm), so perhaps he knows more about the persecution of gays and dissidents than most world leaders. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Can you quote the part about torture from that very lengthy article? I’m not about to read the entire thing, but I did a search for the word “torture” and it’s not in there. And remember, I’m just saying it is inaccurate to describe him as a dictator. But you know… I have no doubt that torture and executions occur in Iran, and that gays have been executed. I’m not defending this guy, just talking about how effectively to engage with him (and the regime as a whole). You don’t do that by hurling insulting, and demonstrably false accusations at him. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/67 "2007-09-26T14:05:52Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Can you quote the part about torture from that very lengthy article? [/QUOTE] _:shrugs:_ > [@](#): > > Ahmadinejad was reportedly a senior officer in the Special Brigade of the Revolutionary Guards stationed at Ramazan Garrison near Kermanshah in western Iran. This was the headquarters of the Revolutionary Guards’ “Extra-territorial Operations” – mounting attacks beyond Iran’s borders. Reports suggested that his work in the Revolutionary Guards was related to suppression of dissidents in Iran and abroad. Sources associated him with atrocities in the notorious Evin prison in Tehran and alleged he personally participated in covert operations around the Iraqi city of Kirkuk. > > With the formation of the elite Qods (Jerusalem; literally ‘Holy’) Force of the IRGC, Ahmadinejad became one of its senior commanders. It was reported that he directed assassinations in the Middle East and Europe, including the assassination of Iranian Kurdish leader Abdorrahman Qassemlou, who was shot dead by senior officers of the Revolutionary Guards in a Vienna flat in July 1989. According to Revolutionary Guard sources, Ahmadinejad was a key planner of the attack. He was also reported to have been involved in planning an attempt on the life of Salman Rushdie. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/68 "2007-09-26T14:42:57Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] The president of Iran is more a figurehead than anything else-- the real power lies with the clerics and the Council of Guardians. [/QUOTE] Well, not **quite** a figurehead. The [presidency of Iran](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_iran) has been rather more powerful since 1989, when the prime ministry was abolished and the president took over most of its functions. But it’s still a less important office than [Supreme Leader.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Leader) ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/69 "2007-09-27T06:42:26Z")
Awhile back, I read that many American soldiers in Iraq mentioned that Iraqi guys would often come on to them for sex - the Iraqi guys explained, “It is OK as long as you are not married to a woman yet.” It seems that sex between men is semi-condoned as an alternative to the horrible sin of sex with a woman before marriage. They don’t consider this male to male sex “Gay”, it is just something guys do until they get married to a woman. I heard similar stories from other guys from Turkey, Iran and Saudi Arabia when I lived in Berlin. Supposedly, once you are married to a woman, you’ll never need to go back to having sex with men. Of course, you are also allowed to have sex with men if your wife is unclean, or pregnant…but you are still not “Gay”. Maybe they are not quite sure what the standard definition of “Gay” is… ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/70 "2007-09-27T07:00:44Z")
FYI only: Here’s a transcript of the Bollinger / Ahmadinejad show at Colombia University: [http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/202820.php](http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/202820.php) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/71 "2007-09-27T12:39:56Z")
[QUOTE=DMark] “It is OK as long as you are not married to a woman yet.” [/QUOTE] As opposed to being married to, say, a sheep? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/72 "2007-09-27T13:49:58Z")
Which is dumber, his “there are no gays in Iran”, or Dubya’s belief that gays exist, but are going to burn in hell if they don’t change their ways? I love it how Bush lovers are making this guy out to be a raving lunatic, but can’t see their hero is just as insane. Dennis Miller on Bill O’Reilly last night mocked the guy for a while and called him a mass murderer- really Dennis? What the hell then is your beloved President? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/73 "2007-09-27T14:44:17Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Which is dumber, his “there are no gays in Iran”, or Dubya’s belief that gays exist, but are going to burn in hell if they don’t change their ways? [/QUOTE] The former, obviously. I’m no Bush apologist, but there’s a world of difference from believing something will occur after death – completely unprovable and therefore unproven – and asserting that something that patently exists in Iran, does not exist in Iran. And I’d like to see a cite, please, for the assertion that Bush believes gays are going to burn in hell if they don’t change their ways. Bush is a member of the United Methodist Church, which certainly does not hold as a tenet that unrepentant gays will burn in hell. Now, he disagrees with the UMC on other issues (including gun control and capital punishment) so it’s certainly possible he disagrees with them on the issue of homosexuality, but I’d still like to see a cite for the assertion that he disagrees with them so radically. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/74 "2007-09-27T15:08:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sitnam] … I was embarrassed by Bollinger’s crassness. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was a guest… [/QUOTE] I totally disagree that Bollinger should’ve been more diplomatic. Had he been more polite the Iranian press would’ve twisted that, too. They are propaganda specialists and that is their job. Ahmidinejad is a psychotic clown and should be treated as one. The downfall of Joe McCarthy began when Joseph Welch asked, “Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?” I assume Bollinger’s speech will leak into Iran and hope that it causes some people to realize their emperor has no clothes. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/75 "2007-09-27T15:21:32Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Bush is a member of the United Methodist Church, [/QUOTE] I used to belong. They were and may still be against drinking, too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/76 "2007-09-27T15:21:48Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Which is dumber, his “there are no gays in Iran”, or Dubya’s belief that gays exist, but are going to burn in hell if they don’t change their ways? I love it how Bush lovers are making this guy out to be a raving lunatic, but can’t see their hero is just as insane. Dennis Miller on Bill O’Reilly last night mocked the guy for a while and called him a mass murderer- really Dennis? What the hell then is your beloved President? [/QUOTE] Yet parts of the country that Bush is the leader of are passing legislature legalizing same-sex unions for gays. Get back to me when you see that take place in Iran. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/77 "2007-09-27T15:42:35Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat] Yet parts of the country that Bush is the leader of are passing legislature legalizing same-sex unions for gays. [/QUOTE] I seriously doubt that he is in favor of such legislation. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/78 "2007-09-27T15:51:20Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Which is dumber, his “there are no gays in Iran”, or Dubya’s belief that gays exist, but are going to burn in hell if they don’t change their ways? I love it how Bush lovers are making this guy out to be a raving lunatic, but can’t see their hero is just as insane. Dennis Miller on Bill O’Reilly last night mocked the guy for a while and called him a mass murderer- really Dennis? What the hell then is your beloved President? [/QUOTE] [Gay treatment in Iran](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297982,00.html) The official policy of Iran is to kill gays. The official policy in the US is to “Don’t ask, don’t tell”? Sorry, but what is the official US policy, or law, that is the equivalent to, “Violators are reportedly given a choice of four methods of execution: hanging, stoning, halving by sword — or being dropped from the highest perch.”? Please explain how you can even attempt to make the two sides morally equivalent in this situation? Or are you just a fan of this guy from Iran because he tweaks the nose of people in the west? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/79 "2007-09-27T16:02:57Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat] Yet parts of the country that Bush is the leader of are passing legislature legalizing same-sex unions for gays. Get back to me when you see that take place in Iran. [/QUOTE] Against his wishes. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2007, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375/80 "2007-09-27T16:21:20Z")
[QUOTE=Uzi] [Gay treatment in Iran](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297982,00.html) The official policy of Iran is to kill gays. The official policy in the US is to “Don’t ask, don’t tell”? Sorry, but what is the official US policy, or law, that is the equivalent to, “Violators are reportedly given a choice of four methods of execution: hanging, stoning, halving by sword — or being dropped from the highest perch.”? Please explain how you can even attempt to make the two sides morally equivalent in this situation? Or are you just a fan of this guy from Iran because he tweaks the nose of people in the west? [/QUOTE] Not a fan of the guy at all. Its one thing when Bush haters rag on the guy, as the two are quite similar- dumb guy who thinks he can do whatever the hell he wants. Its quite another thing when Bush fans go on about how loony he is, when Bush is pretty much the same- mass murderer, hates gays, despises those who don’t share his religion, etc. And come on now, the US not having laws to kill gays has nothing to do with George Bush- its not like that used to be the policy and Dubya changed it. Is there a difference between killing gays and denying them basic rights? Of course. But both people are against them, just one to a larger degree. So Bush looks better in comparison- thats not saying much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-are-no-gays-in-iran/420375.md?page=5)