# "There Have Been, On Average, 10 Mass Shootings In The U.S. Each Week This Year" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2021, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793 "2021-05-10T23:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/83 "2021-05-13T18:23:14Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > > [@Oredigger77](#): > > > > Take mass shootings aside from “if there were less guns there would be less gun deaths” there have been no proposals that would actually have prevented any of the mass shootings. > > Clearly, there’s no hope of formulating regulations to effectively combat mass shootings, which is why they are an unresolved problem in every country on Earth. > > Really, all this hand-wringing about how one could _possibly_ find a way to deal with the problem is starting to sound a bit silly when the obvious answer is, just pick any country at random and do what they do, because odds are they’re doing a better job of it. That’s a good point. Why do we even have different states or different countries with different laws? Obviously there is just 1 optimal set of universal laws and 1 optimal way to run a society, and we should all just do that. The people who live in Wyoming should be subject to exactly the same laws as the people that live in Denmark. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/84 "2021-05-13T18:25:09Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > The drinkers lobby has just won the discussion so completely across the entire political spectrum that there is no chance of ever banning the substance that causes far more harm and suffering in society than firearms. So let’s try this from the other end. If you’re shot, then the immediate cause of death is the firearm. If you’re run over, the immediate cause of death is the car that ran you over. It’s not alcohol that enables the driver to kill you; hence, it’s not alcohol that needs to be regulated (in the same way, at least; there are reasons for regulating alcohol, but they’re not comparable to those for regulating firearms). Alcohol does not put you in a position where your powers of killing others are increased; quite to the contrary. Firearms do. Cars do, too. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/85 "2021-05-13T18:29:50Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Obviously there is just 1 optimal set of universal laws and 1 optimal way to run a society, and we should all just do that. Yes, that’s why there’s no way to increase justice or fairness in a given society, because obviously, everything always already works optimally, and there’s no possibility for comparison across different nations. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/86 "2021-05-13T18:30:50Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Really, all this hand-wringing about how one could _possibly_ find a way to deal with the problem is starting to sound a bit silly when the obvious answer is, just pick any country at random and do what they do, because odds are they’re doing a better job of it. So you agree. The only law you will support to do something about gun deaths is to get rid of guns. The people who @Gyrate is talking about are absolutely correct. > [@Gyrate](#): > > The obstacle to reasonable gun regulation in the US are the people who immediately reframe _any_ reasonable gun regulation as an attempt to “ban them all!”. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/87 "2021-05-13T18:33:16Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > The only law you will support to do something about gun deaths is to get rid of guns. Come on now, that’s almost hyperbolically disingenuous. I said, pick any country at random. For that to entail that all guns are banned, you’d have to show that every country except the US bans all guns. Is that a position you want to argue? ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/88 "2021-05-13T18:34:51Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That’s like saying “people who think swimming in lava is a good idea are just applying the same logic that people who like hot springs do”, and while that’s true, the two aren’t at all compatible, because drinking alcohol DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO END HUMAN LIVES WITH A TWITCH OF YOUR FINGER. So that’s an incredibly shitty comparison. All of these arguments claiming that deaths from guns are worse than the same number of deaths from other sources because of some kind of perceived difference in how easy it was to cause the death seem to be actually making the opposite point you think you are. If guns are just so evil and dangerous and perpetually just a FINGER TWITCH away from killing everyone in sight, and alcohol is just a happy social lubricant and innocent tasty beverage by comparison, then why does alcohol cause 3x the number of deaths per year as firearms do? ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/89 "2021-05-13T18:34:56Z")
Ok, that’s the hair you’re going to split. Sure I’m sure there is some difference in your mind between removing 99% of guns and access and 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/90 "2021-05-13T18:36:43Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Sure I’m sure there is some difference in your mind between removing 99% of guns and access and 100%. Cite that all countries except the US remove 99% of guns? ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/91 "2021-05-13T18:39:36Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > So let’s try this from the other end. If you’re shot, then the immediate cause of death is the firearm. If you’re run over, the immediate cause of death is the car that ran you over. It’s not alcohol that enables the driver to kill you; hence, it’s not alcohol that needs to be regulated (in the same way, at least; there are reasons for regulating alcohol, but they’re not comparable to those for regulating firearms). > > Alcohol does not put you in a position where your powers of killing others are increased; quite to the contrary. Firearms do. Cars do, too. Okay, and if you proposed to try to eliminate drunk driving deaths by banning cars, I’d be opposed to that too…not sure how this helps your point? ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/92 "2021-05-13T18:41:02Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > All of these arguments claiming that deaths from guns are worse than the same number of deaths from other sources because of some kind of perceived difference in how easy it was to cause the death seem to be actually making the opposite point you think you are. Nobody’s saying that gun deaths are worse. The point is that regulations need to attach at the point of the instrument that enables people to exert power over the life of others, because such power should not be unrestricted. Alcohol, as such, does not give you this power; guns do. All deaths are equally bad, but the strategy to prevent them needs to fit the means by which they are caused. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/93 "2021-05-13T18:44:09Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > So you’d be fine with banning pistols but keeping rifles legal? Or are you just drawing a distinction between rifles and pistols because you know including pistols makes your argument look bad? > > You should read the entire thread instead of just responding to the posts at the end. This discussion started with someone making a claim about “all firearms” which I thought was a gross exaggeration and I used a hypothetical example about rifles to challenge it. > > We weren’t talking about the relative merits of banning different types of firearms, that’s a topic you just randomly inserted here. I did read the whole thread and I’d thank you not to make wild accusations about my intent. If we are talking about all firearms then the pistol example is relevant. Stolen firearms definitely ARE used in crimes and in murders. Rifles in general are used in fewer crimes than pistols, so it follows that stolen pistols would be used in more crimes then stolen rifles. The discussion was about how secure firearms are; it was brought up that most gun safes can be easily dismantled with a simple crowbar, for example. That applies just as much to pistols as rifles, and you making a huge distinction between the two is not productive to this debate. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/94 "2021-05-13T18:48:06Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > We weren’t talking about the relative merits of banning different types of firearms, that’s a topic you just randomly inserted here. And you are the one who made the huge distinction between rifles and pistols even though in this context there really isn’t a difference between them - they’re both deadly weapons that people leave laying around where they think they’re secured, and they are too often wrong about that. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/95 "2021-05-13T18:50:16Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Come on now, that’s almost hyperbolically disingenuous. I said, pick any country at random. For that to entail that all guns are banned, you’d have to show that every country except the US bans all guns. Is that a position you want to argue? That is the gist of the argument this page makes: > **[Every Gun Law is an Infringement | GOA](https://www.gunowners.org/oped04192016/)** > > Have you ever heard a gun grabber say, “Gun control is allowed in the Second Amendment, it says ‘well-regulated!’” or “the right to have guns only belongs to the Army!” While the logic of these arguments is laughable, let’s briefly put an end to them... ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/96 "2021-05-13T18:53:48Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > If guns are just so evil and dangerous and perpetually just a FINGER TWITCH away from killing everyone in sight, and alcohol is just a happy social lubricant and innocent tasty beverage by comparison, then why does alcohol cause 3x the number of deaths per year as firearms do? Because a lot more people consume alcohol a lot more often than they use guns. That’s very basic stats. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/97 "2021-05-13T18:54:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That is the gist of the argument this page makes: Well, joke’s on me for believing there’s some lows gun fanatics won’t stoop to, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/98 "2021-05-13T19:02:41Z")
Oh, I’m sorry when I rectally derived a number I was off by 5% the [UK had 5.8% of the guns per capita as the US](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country). Is that different than all? Not noticeably. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/99 "2021-05-13T19:09:31Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > All of these arguments claiming that deaths from guns are worse than the same number of deaths from other sources because of some kind of perceived difference in how easy it was to cause the death seem to be actually making the opposite point you think you are. Also, to hit on this point - it has nothing to do with whether the deaths were “easy” to cause or not, or whether they are “worse”. Every death is bad. Some deaths are easily preventable (gun deaths can be prevented at the low cost of not having guns), others are tougher (car deaths would require some draconian controls on people’s free movement, and our society and economy is built on free movement) or have an unacceptable cost (we could avoid all WWII deaths if we just surrender to Hitler!). Some we can’t really do anything about yet (old age, some diseases). These equations depend on the situation, they aren’t universal. If the only way to survive was to hunt and gather, or we had to hold off zombie hordes every so often, then guns in everyday life would be justified, even if people occasionally used them to shoot one another or themselves once in a while. By that same token, if we invent and implement self driving cars, we could make driving illegal and eliminate traffic deaths without restricting people’s ability to get around, and that’s 100% what we should do as soon as it is a realistic possibility. And much as I myself enjoy driving, when that day comes, I will 100% oppose anyone who makes the argument that they LIKE driving and it’s their RIGHT to do so, no matter how many people die as a result, doggone it! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/100 "2021-05-13T19:13:47Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Oh, I’m sorry when I rectally derived a number I was off by 5% the [UK had 5.8% of the guns per capita as the US](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country). Is that different than all? Not noticeably. Is that because 95% of guns were seized by the government when they implemented their current gun control laws, because their culture just spawns far fewer gun nuts, or because there are fewer people with legitimate need for guns? Don’t forget that only 20% of American adults own guns, and that 3% of American adults own half of all guns (130+ million) Their average arsenal is a staggering 17 guns, which seems to me like 15 more than you can fire, 16 more than you can fire well, and 17 more than you actually need. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/101 "2021-05-13T19:16:11Z")
So you wouldn’t prefer a US that had 95% fewer guns? ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/102 "2021-05-13T19:17:57Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Oh, I’m sorry when I rectally derived a number I was off by 5% the [UK had 5.8% of the guns per capita as the US](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country). Is that different than all? Not noticeably. So it’s not the 100% you claimed first, nor the 99% you backpedalled to, and of course, the UK isn’t every other country except the US. So basically, nothing you said holds up, but you’re still right, yes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793.md?page=6)