# "There Have Been, On Average, 10 Mass Shootings In The U.S. Each Week This Year" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2021, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793 "2021-05-10T23:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/123 "2021-05-13T20:03:20Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Somehow me quoting > > > [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > > > the obvious answer is, just pick any country at random and do what they do > > and saying that they want to ban guns just like most other “successful” countries have done is not coherent? Valid? Something? I’m still waiting for a cite that most countries other than the US have ‘banned’ guns, but even if that were the case, all that would establish is just that you can have a perfectly well-functioning society without any guns… So, I don’t know, not sure why that’s supposed to be such a terrible outlook? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/124 "2021-05-13T20:04:29Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > This is a great example of how your emotional response to this topic colors your perspective, since by far most gun violence is committed by poor criminals who can barely afford one gun, let alone a collection of 17. Yes, and how does that poor criminal get ahold of that gun? > [@Absolute](#): > > What scenario do you think you would prevent by, say, restricting each household to ownership of 2 guns? “Gee, I would like to shoot someone today, but I only have two guns to do it with, I guess I won’t.” It’s more a matter of, “I only have 2 guns, so I can easily keep track of them.” I won’t lose them, have them stolen, or be tempted to sell them to people who may not be allowed to have them. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/125 "2021-05-13T20:05:43Z")
That is a pretty typical tactic, yes. Which is why gun advocates are willing to be accountable for the words of every mass murderer. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/126 "2021-05-13T20:07:26Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > As I said it doesn’t affect my argument at all because its hard not to read these gun control debates without literally seeing people talking about taking “all” guns. You see what you choose to see, even if it has no basis in reality. It’s easy if you just ignore what people actually say, and substitute with what you think that they say. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/127 "2021-05-13T20:08:19Z")
I’ve been reading this thread and learning from it. I asked for the cite because I wanted to read the article. I’m not quibbling, and nobody asked you to write a research paper, so there’s no reason to get testy. I do think you’re supposed to cite sources in GD, something you might want to do next time you’re using statistics to support your argument. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/128 "2021-05-13T20:11:55Z")
If I am a bartender, and I serve you alcohol, and you get in your car and get in an accident, I can be held liable. If I am a gun store owner, and I sell you a gun, and you go and shoot up a school, I am not held liable. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/129 "2021-05-13T20:17:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If not, then why do you think that it is a legitimate tactic to use the words of someone who admits that they have a more radical view than most on guns, and isn’t even a US citizen to accuse other advocates of less gun injury and death from guns of having some same views? Nitpick: I am a US citizen, I was even born here and could be your president one day! But I didn’t grow up here and your (the general “your”) views on firearms are pretty alien to me. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/130 "2021-05-13T20:17:45Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Think of it this was when a racist republican says “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” it makes it really hard for other republicans to say we need to minimize illegal immigration without people saying they are as racist as the first person. Huh, so do you think that all republicans are racists? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/131 "2021-05-13T20:18:00Z")
Ah, I misunderstood, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/132 "2021-05-13T21:10:43Z")
For those who are interested, I’d like to offer two websites that I’m poking around in periodically: [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country) > **[Overview of gun laws by nation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Gun laws and policies, collectively referred to as firearms regulation or gun control, regulate the manufacture, sale, transfer, possession, modification, and use of small arms by civilians. Laws of some countries may afford civilians a right to keep and bear arms, and have more liberal gun laws than neighboring jurisdictions. Countries that regulate access to firearms will typically restrict access to certain categories of firearms and then rest... I find it fascinating to look at/for correlations between the per capita rate of gun violence in a country and its gun laws. Correlation doesn’t always equal causation, and all things are _not_ equal, but it is, at least, fascinating and, at best, instructive. [DIGRESSION] I chuckle at the term “American Exceptionalism.” To whatever extent one thinks that America is great, it got that way _in spite of_ “American Exceptionalists,” not _because of_ them. And I’ll speculate (even in GD) that ardent 2dA support and belief in “American Exceptionalism” are pretty highly correlated. I’m _always_ interested in who’s doing it better, and how they’re doing it. We should always be implementing _best_ practices, but for the “American Exceptionalists,” it seems more than adequate if they can find somebody who’s “doing it worse” than we are (eg, “Try to be an illegal alien in Mexico and see what happens !”). [/DIGRESSION] ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/133 "2021-05-13T21:16:34Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > And I’ll speculate (even in GD) that ardent 2dA support and belief in “American Exceptionalism” are pretty highly correlated. Just for a data point. I think the US is a pretty average country. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/134 "2021-05-13T21:20:29Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I think the US is a pretty average country. Why do you hate America ? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/135 "2021-05-13T21:24:42Z")
Not enough guns? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/136 "2021-05-13T21:45:01Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Or is could be people who purport to support an idea like regulate guns like cars and then backpeddle like crazy when they realize cars are regulated at a much lower level than guns. If you’re referring to me, I haven’t backpedalled at all, nor did you demonstrate that cars are regulated at a much lower level than guns. You simply ignored all the ways in which car usage is more regulated, and then moved the goalposts to talk about applied enforcement, an area more convenient to your preferred narrative (much like pretending that I “backpedalled” is). > [@Oredigger77](#): > > It’s hard to have gun regulation debate when your side proposes regulations that do nothing to address the problems they say they think is an issue. Take mass shootings aside from “if there were less guns there would be less gun deaths” there have been no proposals that would actually have prevented any of the mass shootings. That means it does come down to banning and removing guns. \< ticks off “Welp, there’s nothing we can possibly do about all these gun deaths” on my gun rights advocate excuse Bingo card \> Of course, most of the proposals put forward in the US are already defanged by the gun lobby before they ever see a committee, and even then those same gun lobbies cry about how oppressed they are. There are certainly many other options available that have been shown to work in many other countries, even without a “99% ban”, but the “American exceptionalism” handwave seems to prevent those from ever being considered. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > Just enjoying the tangent you’re running down As I said it doesn’t affect my argument at all because its hard not to read these gun control debates without literally seeing people talking about taking “all” guns. And I’ve been enjoying watching you misuse the quote of mine you keep repeating, while simultaneously validating it. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/137 "2021-05-13T21:52:26Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > If you’re referring to me, I haven’t backpedalled at all, nor did you demonstrate that cars are regulated at a much lower level than guns. Really? This is the conversation I was hoping we’d get back too. I really do think that guns and cars should be regulated similarly. I’m totally OK with testing and licensing for public usage and I think there should be virtually no regulation on private usage. > [@Gyrate](#): > > There are certainly many other options available that have been shown to work in many other countries, even without a “99% ban”, Let’s talk about those then. I think red flag laws are a great idea and should have stopped grocery store shooting in Colorado earlier this year (It obviously didn’t and I’d like to see more reporting on why his family that thought he was crazy didn’t report it when they saw he bought a gun). What other ideas do you have and how would they have stopped a shooting? > [@Gyrate](#): > > And I’ve been enjoying watching you misuse the quote of mine you keep repeating, while simultaneously validating it. I’m always happy to amuse. That is 99% of the reason I’m here; amuse and be amused ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/138 "2021-05-13T22:05:31Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > What other ideas do you have and how would they have stopped a shooting? My dog just sidled up to me. Seems he smelled a red herring. The idea is to _decrease the likelihood_ of _future_ gun violence. Speed limits don’t eliminate speeders, but they tend to bring down average speeds. Mexico’s strict gun laws haven’t prevented them from suffering a high rate of gun violence, but which way would that rate go if they loosened their strict gun laws ? We have some 393,000,000 privately owned guns in the US. At what point does the “good guy with a gun” thing start making a dent in this stuff ? Asking for a friend. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/139 "2021-05-13T22:10:42Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > We have some 393,000,000 privately owned guns in the US. At what point does the “good guy with a gun” thing start making a dent in this stuff ? No idea. I’m not a proponent of the theory. Are you saying you have no ideas to reduce shootings besides getting rid of guns? I’ve been just told repeatedly that there are tons of other ideas. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/140 "2021-05-13T22:11:48Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Are you saying you have no ideas to reduce shootings besides getting rid of guns? It is more than a bit disingenuous for you to repeatedly do this nonsense (endless hyperbolic straw men). But as long as it amuses you … ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/141 "2021-05-13T22:13:22Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > It is more than a bit disingenuous for you to repeatedly do this nonsense (endless hyperbolic straw men). So I make concrete proposals: red flag laws, regulating guns like cars. You ask about good guys shooting bad guys and I’m the one being disingenuous? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793/142 "2021-05-13T22:16:05Z")
Absolutely. If you find it easier to argue against what you wish people had said than to argue against what they actually **do** say, well … I won’t stop you. But … yes. Absolutely. It’s called a straw man fallacy (and/or loaded question – no pun intended). If you offered concrete proposals, you do not get a pass for this kind of abject logical fallacy just because of you made those proposals. And my “good guy with a gun” question raised the issue of why the nation with the highest rate of gun ownership still has gun violence rates that are on the rise. No logical fallacy there. Nothing disingenuous about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-have-been-on-average-10-mass-shootings-in-the-u-s-each-week-this-year/941793.md?page=8)