# There is a better way to moderate than this. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 17, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882 "2019-10-17T02:10:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/21 "2019-10-17T18:31:00Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Before I do this, could you please explain the relevance of the question? I’m not sure I see it. You are not sure if the claim _you_ made is relevant? There is an easy solution to this conundrum: Withdraw the claim. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/22 "2019-10-17T18:31:19Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Before I do this, could you please explain the relevance of the question? I’m not sure I see it. If you’re compelled to say that something is manufactured, then surely you thought your comment was relevant. Is there a problem with you saying who, exactly, manufactured the thing? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/23 "2019-10-17T18:31:48Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Before I do this, could you please explain the relevance of the question? I’m not sure I see it. Dude, you just checkmated yourself. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/24 "2019-10-17T18:31:54Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I agree this was unreasonable moderation. There is a poster in this thread whose sole purpose is to deflect from the actual debate in question. They are posting deliberately obtuse and willfully blind garbage in order to move the debate away from a topic that is very uncomfortable for them. They are baiting others. > > And when someone responds to the bait? > > Then the moderator threatens to shut down the debate, thus given the person EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT. > > Great. All this will do is encourage others to do exactly the same thing to shut down debate. In fact, here are some of them now, vigorously defending this shitty tactic. What is this kindergarten? Nobody here lacks agency. Nobody here is obligated to answer any question or provide a cite or engage with someone they don’t want to. It’s really that simple. Complaining about politeness, cite requests, and pedantry is not the real concern. The real concern is that people are frustrated that they can’t get rid of certain posters that they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/25 "2019-10-17T18:32:26Z")
Did I just hear a five-part whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/26 "2019-10-17T18:33:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If you’re compelled to say that something is manufactured, then surely you thought your comment was relevant. Is there a problem with you saying who, exactly, manufactured the thing? As I said earlier, I’m unsure of the identity of the person or persons who manufactured Sealioning. Do you think that the fact I can’t name them means the claim is unfounded. If so, why? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/27 "2019-10-17T18:43:57Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The real concern is that people are frustrated that they can’t get rid of certain posters that they don’t like. No, the real concern is that one moderator is doing jack shit about someone clearly flouting another moderator’s instructions. Moderators are supposed to be on the same page, FFS. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/28 "2019-10-17T18:52:10Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > No, the real concern is that one moderator is doing jack shit about someone clearly flouting another moderator’s instructions. Moderators are supposed to be on the same page, FFS. Maybe such a poorly used and undefined word has different meanings to different people. Maybe there is no bright sealioning line to cross. That’s a feature. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/29 "2019-10-17T18:58:46Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > As I said earlier, I’m unsure of the identity of the person or persons who manufactured Sealioning. Do you think that the fact I can’t name them means the claim is unfounded. If so, why? How can something be “manufactured” and not real at the same time? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/30 "2019-10-17T19:02:59Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > As I said earlier, I’m unsure of the identity of the person or persons who manufactured Sealioning. Do you think that the fact I can’t name them means the claim is unfounded. If so, why? No, earlier you said: > [@](#): > > Sealioning is not a thing. It’s a manufactured ‘offence’ designed to shut down debate. It’s right there for us to see. You did not mention that you were “unsure of the identity of the persons”. This is a new thing. That you just stated now. Not anything you “said earlier”. And now you’re accusing someone that they think that “the fact I can’t name them means the claim is unfounded”. Which is just a silly thing to claim on your part. What you’re doing here is obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/31 "2019-10-17T19:07:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Maybe such a poorly used and undefined word has different meanings to different people. Maybe there is no bright sealioning line to cross. That’s a feature. Moderators not being [on the same page](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21920910&postcount=55) is a bug. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/32 "2019-10-17T19:12:45Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What is this kindergarten? Nobody here lacks agency. Nobody here is obligated to answer any question or provide a cite or engage with someone they don’t want to. It’s really that simple. > > Complaining about politeness, cite requests, and pedantry is not the real concern. The real concern is that people are frustrated that they can’t get rid of certain posters that they don’t like. It’s a message board with rules. If you want anarchy, go somewhere else. If you want to complain about how poorly you’re treated, I will email you a tissue. Certain people like to push the rules here to the breaking point. They actively employ tactics designed to shift debate. They actively try to goad others. They do not debate in good faith. They ignore or deliberately misinterpret other posters. They destroy any value in discussion. And your comment is that we should simply ignore them? And maybe the asshole will go away? Don’t point out the asshole behaviour, because… reasons. No. Assholes will continue to be assholes as long as good people do nothing. And this thread is pointing out the need for moderators to … do their jobs properly. Again, if you want anarchy where anything goes - this is not the place for you. I’m sure there are places on the net where this is the case. They must be paradise. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/33 "2019-10-17T19:28:22Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It’s a message board with rules. If you want anarchy, go somewhere else. If you want to complain about how poorly you’re treated, I will email you a tissue. > > Certain people like to push the rules here to the breaking point. They actively employ tactics designed to shift debate. They actively try to goad others. They do not debate in good faith. They ignore or deliberately misinterpret other posters. They destroy any value in discussion. > > And your comment is that we should simply ignore them? And maybe the asshole will go away? Don’t point out the asshole behaviour, because… reasons. > > No. > > Assholes will continue to be assholes as long as good people do nothing. > > And this thread is pointing out the need for moderators to … do their jobs properly. > > Again, if you want anarchy where anything goes - this is not the place for you. I’m sure there are places on the net where this is the case. They must be paradise. Why the excluded middle fallacy? I disagree with one particular, subjective, poorly defined, and selectively applied ‘rule’ therefore I desire anarchy? Oh, c’mon now. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/34 "2019-10-17T19:30:33Z")
I’m going to go cry in a corner now. I’m like 10% concerned about whether sealioning is being moderated, and 90% concerned that moderators shouldn’t be threatening to shut down entire conversations because of a few people breaking rules. Can we maybe wind down the infinite sealion recursion, and get a reassurance that whole-class detention is not on the table? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/35 "2019-10-17T19:32:48Z")
If it helps, I’ve decided to take a break from the impeachment inquiry thread. I’ll try to avoid posting there for a while. Maybe things will cool off a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/36 "2019-10-17T19:34:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The real concern is that people are frustrated that they can’t get rid of certain posters that they don’t like. Well, that’s a tautology. People are complaining about a small number of people because of the dishonest debate tactics that they are using. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/37 "2019-10-17T19:37:26Z")
N/m ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/38 "2019-10-17T20:35:33Z")
The term “sealioning” has been quite popular recently, overused a bit and I think that’s partly because of previous instruction I gave. Can’t change that. All the moderators communicate about actions they take, and if there are new things, general directives, we communicate about that too. Of course, being different people we are not in perfect agreement on all things, but we directionaly align on virtually everything. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m going to go cry in a corner now. I’m like 10% concerned about whether sealioning is being moderated, and 90% concerned that moderators shouldn’t be threatening to shut down entire conversations because of a few people breaking rules. Can we maybe wind down the infinite sealion recursion, and get a reassurance that whole-class detention is not on the table? It’s almost a given that one of the most important issues of the day will be discussed on the boards, and all over the boards. I don’t think you have a lot to worry about not having that avenue for discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/39 "2019-10-17T20:38:27Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > The term “sealioning” has been quite popular recently, overused a bit and I think that’s partly because of previous instruction I gave. Can’t change that. > > All the moderators communicate about actions they take, and if there are new things, general directives, we communicate about that too. Of course, being different people we are not in perfect agreement on all things, but we directionaly align on virtually everything. > It’s almost a given that one of the most important issues of the day will be discussed on the boards, and all over the boards. I don’t think you have a lot to worry about not having that avenue for discussion. The piece of the direction that’s especially concerning–coming across as vindictive and petty–is the “I won’t let you open another one for several days.” Am I to take it that that piece carries no weight? ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882/40 "2019-10-17T20:40:34Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Sealioning is a a real thing, and is itself a technique designed to stifle debate. Is it the same as Harbor Sealing? I spent the night in the San Francisco jail over that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-a-better-way-to-moderate-than-this/841882.md?page=3)