# There is an axe in my forehead with blood gushing..

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-an-axe-in-my-forehead-with-blood-gushing/547287>\
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\
**Created:** [July 19, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-an-axe-in-my-forehead-with-blood-gushing/547287 "2010-07-19T22:44:35Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 7\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-an-axe-in-my-forehead-with-blood-gushing/547287/21 "2010-07-24T16:36:25Z")

</div>

> [@Irishman](#):
>
> One clarifying question for **jtgain** : are you looking for humorous ideas, or actual threads/comments that have been posted?

Either or both!

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**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\
**Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-an-axe-in-my-forehead-with-blood-gushing/547287/22 "2010-07-24T18:50:14Z")

</div>

[I got a hole in my scrotum and I’m sitting in a pool of blood!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=390297) - no biggie, I guess.

[I got a hole in my scrotum & a geyser of blood!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=440696) - no biggie, now I understand the ladies betters. Solidarity, Sisters!

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-an-axe-in-my-forehead-with-blood-gushing/547287/23 "2010-07-30T03:30:58Z")

</div>

\*\*

> [@Drain\_Bead](#):
>
> Anything regarding **Stoid** and her Sisyphean appeal.

\*\*Well, except for the part where I never asked for anyone’s advice about a single thing. Note how the examples given tend to include “what should i…?” constructions.

I have sought information, not advice. There is a difference, Doper lawyers’ passionate convictions notwithstanding.

From the American Judicature Society:  
\*\*

[Legal information vs. legal advice](http://www.ajs.org/prose/pro_greacen.asp)

> [@](#):
>
> Finally, the article suggested 11 guidelines for staff to use in responding to questions. **The first six are positive statements. All staff are expected to perform the following tasks:**
> 
> Provide information contained in docket reports,\*\* case files\*\*, indexes and other reports.
> 
> Answer questions concerning court rules, procedures, and ordinary practices. **Such questions often contain the words “Can I?” or “How do I?”**
> 
> Provide examples of forms or pleadings for the guidance of litigants.
> 
> Answer questions about the completion of forms.
> 
> Explain the meaning of terms and documents used in the court process.
> 
> Answer questions concerning deadlines or due dates.
> 
> **The last five are negative statements. In providing information, staff will not:**
> 
> Give information when you are unsure of the correct answer. Transfer such questions to supervisors.
> 
> \*\*Advise litigants whether to take a particular course of action. Do not answer questions that contain the words “Should I?” \*\*Suggest that questioners refer such issues to a lawyer.
> 
> Take sides in a case or proceeding pending before the court.
> 
> Provide information to one party that you would be unwilling or unable to provide to all other parties.
> 
> Disclose the outcome of a matter submitted to a judge for decision until the outcome is part of the public record, or until the judge directs disclosure of the matter.

The positives = information  
The negatives = advice

The two issues that were discussed at length in regards to the issue of this thread were first, the meaning of the legal concepts of “findings of ultimate fact”, and whether any of the lawyers I had talked to in real life (not here) had ever encountered a particular thing happening in a case - which I did not explain here at the time but I did explain to the lawyers in question: have you ever seen a receiver have to disgorge his fees when a case has been reversed? I framed it as bunnies and pancakes here. But it’s clearly information, not advice.

The article above is about court personnel - but the concept of “advice” vs. “information” is the issue. There is a difference. I never asked for advice.

FTR: so long as people persist in mischaracterizing the facts about me, I will persist in correcting them, before anyone launches into “Oh stoid…!” stuff.

ADDITIONAL CITATIONS

The West Virginia Supreme Court and Court of Appeals Poster:

> [@](#):
>
> The court staff **can give legal information.**  
> The court staff CAN answer:\*\*
> 
> ® How do I request a hearing?  
> ® How do I file a lawsuit?  
> ® Has a complaint (or petition, motion, response, answer,  
> certificate of service, objection, etc.) been filed?  
> ® I just got this summons and complaint. It says I have to  
> file an ‘answer’ or I will be subject to default. I can’t  
> afford an attorney. What is an answer? What does one  
> look like? What does it say? What does ‘default’ mean  
> ® When is my answer due?  
> ® What does ‘interrogatory’ mean?  
> ® I got a summons for jury service. My wife and I have  
> tickets for a cruise on the date I have been called to  
> serve. What happens if I don’t show up? Well, what  
> should I do then?  
> ® When are the court deadlines and due dates?  
> ® Do I have to do anything else?  
> ® This is the situation I’m in . . ., so how should I bring  
> this issue before the court to decide?  
> ® What does the court ask for in complaints and motions  
> The court staff WILL:  
> ® Explain how the court works, including  
> procedures, rules, and practices to  
> litigants, the media, and other interested  
> citizens.  
> ® Provide examples of forms and pleadings,  
> provide procedural guidance to litigants,  
> and answer questions about the completion  
> of forms.  
> ® Explain the meaning of terms and  
> documents used in the process.  
> ® Explain how to bring problems before the  
> court.  
> ® Provide information contained in docket  
> reports, case file (except juvenile and  
> family), indexes, and other reports.  
> ® Explain the requirements to have a case  
> considered by the court.  
> ® Give you information from your case file.  
> ® Encourage you to seek legal advice.  
> ® Provide a written guide outlining the  
> West Virginia Court system.  
> A lawyer can give legal advice.  
> The court staff CANNOT:  
> ® Advise you whether to bring your problems before the court or  
> what remedy to seek.  
> ® Give advice or information to one party over another or take  
> sides in a case.  
> ® Give information when they are unsure of the correct answer.  
> ® Advise you whether to take a particular course of action.  
> ® Disclose the outcome of a matter until the outcome is part of  
> public record.  
> ® Give information that must be kept confidential, by statute,  
> rule, or case law, such as d omestic relations and juvenile.  
> ® Tell you whether or not to bring a case to court.  
> ® Give an opinion about what will happen if a case is brought to  
> court.  
> ® Recommend a lawyer, but can refer you to the West Virginia  
> State Bar Lawyer Referral Service — (304) 558-7991.  
> ® Talk to the judge for you about what will happen in your case.  
> ® Let you talk to the judge outs ide of court.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![may\_be\_ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c5a1d2/32.png) [@may\_be\_ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/may_be_ignorant)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-an-axe-in-my-forehead-with-blood-gushing/547287/24 "2010-07-30T03:33:43Z")

</div>

> [@Stoid](#):
>
> \*\*
> 
> > [@Drain\_Bead](#):
> >
> > Anything regarding **Stoid** and her Sisyphean appeal.
> 
> \*\*Well, except for the part where I never asked for anyone’s advice about a single thing. Note how the examples given tend to include “what should i…?” constructions.
> 
> I have sought information, not advice. There is a difference, Doper lawyers’ passionate convictions notwithstanding.
> 
> From the American Judicature Society:  
> \*\*
> 
> [Legal information vs. legal advice](http://www.ajs.org/prose/pro_greacen.asp)
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Finally, the article suggested 11 guidelines for staff to use in responding to questions. **The first six are positive statements. All staff are expected to perform the following tasks:**
> > 
> > Provide information contained in docket reports,\*\* case files\*\*, indexes and other reports.
> > 
> > Answer questions concerning court rules, procedures, and ordinary practices. **Such questions often contain the words “Can I?” or “How do I?”**
> > 
> > Provide examples of forms or pleadings for the guidance of litigants.
> > 
> > Answer questions about the completion of forms.
> > 
> > Explain the meaning of terms and documents used in the court process.
> > 
> > Answer questions concerning deadlines or due dates.
> > 
> > **The last five are negative statements. In providing information, staff will not:**
> > 
> > Give information when you are unsure of the correct answer. Transfer such questions to supervisors.
> > 
> > \*\*Advise litigants whether to take a particular course of action. Do not answer questions that contain the words “Should I?” \*\*Suggest that questioners refer such issues to a lawyer.
> > 
> > Take sides in a case or proceeding pending before the court.
> > 
> > Provide information to one party that you would be unwilling or unable to provide to all other parties.
> > 
> > Disclose the outcome of a matter submitted to a judge for decision until the outcome is part of the public record, or until the judge directs disclosure of the matter.
> 
> The positives = information  
> The negatives = advice
> 
> The two issues that were discussed at length in regards to the issue of this thread were first, the meaning of the legal concepts of “findings of ultimate fact”, and whether any of the lawyers I had talked to in real life (not here) had ever encountered a particular thing happening in a case - which I did not explain here at the time but I did explain to the lawyers in question: have you ever seen a receiver have to disgorge his fees when a case has been reversed? I framed it as bunnies and pancakes here. But it’s clearly information, not advice.
> 
> The article above is about court personnel - but the concept of “advice” vs. “information” is the issue. There is a difference. I never asked for advice.
> 
> FTR: so long as people persist in mischaracterizing the facts about me, I will persist in correcting them, before anyone launches into “Oh stoid…!” stuff.
> 
> ADDITIONAL CITATIONS
> 
> The West Virginia Supreme Court and Court of Appeals Poster:
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > The court staff **can give legal information.**  
> > The court staff CAN answer:\*\*
> > 
> > ® How do I request a hearing?  
> > ® How do I file a lawsuit?  
> > ® Has a complaint (or petition, motion, response, answer,  
> > certificate of service, objection, etc.) been filed?  
> > ® I just got this summons and complaint. It says I have to  
> > file an ‘answer’ or I will be subject to default. I can’t  
> > afford an attorney. What is an answer? What does one  
> > look like? What does it say? What does ‘default’ mean  
> > ® When is my answer due?  
> > ® What does ‘interrogatory’ mean?  
> > ® I got a summons for jury service. My wife and I have  
> > tickets for a cruise on the date I have been called to  
> > serve. What happens if I don’t show up? Well, what  
> > should I do then?  
> > ® When are the court deadlines and due dates?  
> > ® Do I have to do anything else?  
> > ® This is the situation I’m in . . ., so how should I bring  
> > this issue before the court to decide?  
> > ® What does the court ask for in complaints and motions  
> > The court staff WILL:  
> > ® Explain how the court works, including  
> > procedures, rules, and practices to  
> > litigants, the media, and other interested  
> > citizens.  
> > ® Provide examples of forms and pleadings,  
> > provide procedural guidance to litigants,  
> > and answer questions about the completion  
> > of forms.  
> > ® Explain the meaning of terms and  
> > documents used in the process.  
> > ® Explain how to bring problems before the  
> > court.  
> > ® Provide information contained in docket  
> > reports, case file (except juvenile and  
> > family), indexes, and other reports.  
> > ® Explain the requirements to have a case  
> > considered by the court.  
> > ® Give you information from your case file.  
> > ® Encourage you to seek legal advice.  
> > ® Provide a written guide outlining the  
> > West Virginia Court system.  
> > A lawyer can give legal advice.  
> > The court staff CANNOT:  
> > ® Advise you whether to bring your problems before the court or  
> > what remedy to seek.  
> > ® Give advice or information to one party over another or take  
> > sides in a case.  
> > ® Give information when they are unsure of the correct answer.  
> > ® Advise you whether to take a particular course of action.  
> > ® Disclose the outcome of a matter until the outcome is part of  
> > public record.  
> > ® Give information that must be kept confidential, by statute,  
> > rule, or case law, such as d omestic relations and juvenile.  
> > ® Tell you whether or not to bring a case to court.  
> > ® Give an opinion about what will happen if a case is brought to  
> > court.  
> > ® Recommend a lawyer, but can refer you to the West Virginia  
> > State Bar Lawyer Referral Service — (304) 558-7991.  
> > ® Talk to the judge for you about what will happen in your case.  
> > ® Let you talk to the judge outs ide of court.

I am not afraid to say, that I saw a defense coming from stoid. I predicted this.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![smoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@smoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smoke)\
**Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-an-axe-in-my-forehead-with-blood-gushing/547287/25 "2010-07-30T18:39:36Z")

</div>

I’ve thought the saga itself was fun to follow, but is she supposed to lie down while she gets shit on? Besides, it looks like the distinction definitely exists, regardless of whether what she actually asked for was advice or information.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\
**Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-an-axe-in-my-forehead-with-blood-gushing/547287/26 "2010-07-31T02:01:36Z")

</div>

I was going to ask, “Who’s stoid?” Now I realize I don’t want to know.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\
**Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-an-axe-in-my-forehead-with-blood-gushing/547287/27 "2010-07-31T10:04:23Z")

</div>

> [@may\_be\_ignorant](#):
>
> I am not afraid to say, that I saw a defense coming from stoid. I predicted this.

I wouldn’t pat yourself on the back too hard. I’m pretty sure she’s the only poster in this thread identified by name. She was basically called out. I’m pretty sure any doper would defend themselves in that position.

As for the OP: I guess I don’t pay attention enough.

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