# There is no 'date rape' drug that works in some of the ways reported is there? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 26, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895 "2015-01-26T01:10:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/41 "2015-01-27T00:11:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > On the other hand, people are also notoriously bad at counting the number of drinks they had. “I only had one drink” could easily mean “…that was re-filled five times that night, and followed by another three more that I don’t remember drinking”. I could see saying “I had 2 or 3 drinks” and forgetting about the beers from before going out and the 3 shots right after walking into the bar and only counting the two martinis, but confusing (what I said) a half a drink with (what you said) 9 drinks seems a bit off. Especially when you’re trying to peice together your night, moreso if you’re talking to law enforcement and accusing someone of rape. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Interestingly, altho she claims Cosby “drugged” her, note she doesnt claim any sexual attacks. Is this about the most recent allegation? My WAG is that she was trying to accuse him of _something_ without having to back it up with any evidence whatsoever since it would never see a courtroom. If she said rape she’d have to have some kind of proof since the statue of limitations hasn’t run out (or doesn’t) based on the date she said it happened. But what she claimed and the date she used, the Statute of Limitations had just barely passed. Also, and I don’t know if this is coincidence or not, Cosby has a good alibi for the weekend she claimed it happened. She said it happened at the Playboy mansion, but he has plane tickets to NYC and phone records that put him in NYC. On top of that, there was media covered event at the mansion that made no mention of him. > **[Bill Cosby -- Accuser Chloe Goins is a LIAR ... I Wasn't Even There](https://www.tmz.com/2015/01/16/bill-cosby-evidence-playboy-mansion-accuser-sexual-assault-chloe-goins/)** > > Bill Cosby has PROOF he was not even at the Playboy Mansion the night one of his accusers claims he sexually assaulted her ... so says Cosby's lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/42 "2015-01-27T18:41:19Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > It does on some people. Really? 1/10th of a dose and you’re woozy?\* And gosh, ingested drugs do take a bit of time to take effect. Let us say he did use Quaaludes. He’d expect her to finish her drink. if the dose was enough to have that reaction after two sips, then a whole cup would likely kill her. Look, I got no problem with thinking Cosby was a horny sleaze. But this story doesnt hold water. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/43 "2015-01-27T20:35:48Z")
Cindra Ladd’s story: > [@](#): > > One night, the two had plans to go to a movie. After complaining about a headache, Cosby offered her a capsule he said would get rid of the pain. > > "I asked a couple of times what it was. Each time he reassured me, asking, “Don’t you trust me?” Of course I did. This was Bill Cosby. > > “For more than 45 years I have tried to recall exactly what happened that night. To this day it remains a blur. I have a vague recollection of feeling like I was floating while walking through Times Square and watching some kind of Japanese samurai movie with him. I don’t remember where the theater was nor very much of the evening.” > > Ladd recalls waking up naked next to Cosby knowing he had sex with her… Quaaludes? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/44 "2015-01-27T20:47:11Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Cindra Ladd’s story: > Quaaludes? Possible, but 'ludes almost always came in tablet form. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/45 "2015-01-28T00:02:15Z")
What we may need here is someone who was familiar with the illegal/off-label/experimental recreatioal pharmaceutical world of the late 60s through 80s. There were a lot of products and combinations that various labs came up with that may have never been “legal” in the US but may have been produced elsewhere in the world, and been accessible to the Hollywood crowd; but mostly they would come from familiar families of product like benzos and quinazolinones and barbiturates and so forth and one would expect familiar pharmacokinetics. As it stands, yes, some of the specific descriptions don’t really add up but then again if you were drugged, when later recalling the incident, for example, and that you felt drugged by the second sip, how reliable would be the _ **memory itself** _ be? (Plus also, as mentioned, you may be feeling the effect by the second sip of this drink… but you may have been dosed earlier.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/46 "2015-01-28T00:10:47Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > As it stands, yes, some of the specific descriptions don’t really add up but then again if you were drugged, when later recalling the incident, for example, and that you felt drugged by the second sip, how reliable would be the _ **memory itself** _ be? (Plus also, as mentioned, you may be feeling the effect by the second sip of this drink… but you may have been dosed earlier.) You make a point, but after 30 years memory is totally unreliable, with or without drugs. There’s also no indication she was given anything else to drink, etc before. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/47 "2015-01-28T00:44:39Z")
Sounds like Cosby liked to party. So, like with many other sexual incidents, the attacker knew the victim well in advance. So, dabbling with recreational drugs may have been (probably were) a bit of a hobby of his and he may have had something mixed up just for her. Also, something to remember is that cappuccino has a foam on it. This could have been a powder crushed and then sprinkled on the foam layer. Then, once he saw the effects, take the drink away and walk off with here while she was under her own power but unable to remember. Assuming any of this is true, he probably “had a plan” for each women in question. Maybe like one of those fantasy things where he gained their trust, noticed what drugs she liked, knew which way to go drug wise, had a location in mind. These were not simple “drops of pills” and hoping it would work. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/48 "2015-01-28T04:34:49Z")
Is there any mechanism other than the GABA receptor these drugs can be working on? Symptoms people are giving are amnesia, weakness, dizziness, etc. Aside from GABA drugs what else are there? As far as GABA drugs in the 60s onward what options were there other than benzos and barbituates? Benzos (to my knowledge) make natural GABA more effective at stimulating the receptor, but barbituates can active the receptor by themselves which make them more dangerous. Makes you wonder if there are any women who had respiratory depression and died from combining GABA drugs with alcohol, and then it was covered up. Looking online there are rapid onset barbituates like methohexital. Supposedly those will work within a minute or so via IV. No idea about oral onset. ---
**Author:** ![whc.03grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@whc.03grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whc.03grady)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/49 "2015-01-28T13:49:45Z")
A ‘sip’ is a subjective term to the point of uselessness; how big is a sip? And as at least one other has pointed out, in a social setting two sips might span 10 minutes. Two biggish sips of a spiked drink in 10 minutes and now she’s definitely feeling it? IANAA/P but that seems totally plausible. For another clue as to what the drug might’ve been, note later in the article she says it was “a few days” before the effects wore off. As to her reporting a drugging but not a rape (and I realize this is tangential to the OP), reading the article my take is that in her drugged state she was more irate and less pliable than he would’ve preferred and so he dragged her to a taxi rather than, uh, _deal_ with her in a state other than he’d intended. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/50 "2015-01-28T14:16:57Z")
Of all the women who have accused Cosby, how many have made the “two sip” claim? Unless I’ve missed something, this seems to all be about one accuser (Johnson), and this seems like a big deal to be making about a detail that was offered up by one person. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/51 "2015-01-28T14:20:20Z")
> [@whc.03grady](#): > > A ‘sip’ is a subjective term to the point of uselessness; how big is a sip? And as at least one other has pointed out, in a social setting two sips might span 10 minutes. Two biggish sips of a spiked drink in 10 minutes and now she’s definitely feeling it? IANAA/P but that seems totally plausible. For another clue as to what the drug might’ve been, note later in the article she says it was “a few days” before the effects wore off. > > As to her reporting a drugging but not a rape (and I realize this is tangential to the OP), reading the article my take is that in her drugged state she was more irate and less pliable than he would’ve preferred and so he dragged her to a taxi rather than, uh, _deal_ with her in a state other than he’d intended. It was a cappuccino, you kinda have to drink them while hot, and a single shot one (like they are traditionally) actually does not have much fluid. An ounce of coffee and a few ounces of foamed milk. Honestly, I can’t imagine a sip once every ten minutes for a drink that is served at a temp that is not room temp. A cold drink like beer will get warm, a mixed drink with ice will become watery, coffee will get cold. These once every ten minute sips is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/52 "2015-01-28T14:22:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Unless I’ve missed something, this seems to all be about one accuser (Johnson), and this seems like a big deal to be making about a detail that was offered up by one person. Well, every (alleged) rape is a big deal. But I agree with your greater point: that if one, two or even five of the accusations are spurious there’s still plenty of smoke from which we can infer that there’s fire. At least I think that’s what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/53 "2015-01-28T14:45:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, every (alleged) rape is a big deal. But I agree with your greater point: that if one, two or even five of the accusations are spurious there’s still plenty of smoke from which we can infer that there’s fire. At least I think that’s what you mean. If it’s just a detail in one person’s story, then it’s likely that either that person’s story is bogus or that person got the detail wrong. If most of the stories have the same detail which doesn’t add up then it suggests something more fishy. ---
**Author:** ![whc.03grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@whc.03grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whc.03grady)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/54 "2015-01-28T15:36:58Z")
> [@electronbee](#): > > Honestly, I can’t imagine a sip once every ten minutes for a drink that is served at a temp that is not room temp. A cold drink like beer will get warm, a mixed drink with ice will become watery, coffee will get cold. These once every ten minute sips is absurd. Maybe if you really didn’t want it in the first place? [QUOTE=the Vanity Fair article] I told him I didn’t drink coffee that late in the afternoon because it made getting to sleep at night more difficult. He wouldn’t let it go…It’s nuts, I know, but it felt oddly inappropriate arguing with Bill Cosby so I took a few sips of the coffee just to appease him. [/QUOTE] Not trying to hijack, just trying to point out that while there may be no drug known to the OP that can have an effect after two sips, maybe those sips were widely-spaced and who knows what constitutes a sip anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/55 "2015-01-28T17:53:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, every (alleged) rape is a big deal. But I agree with your greater point: that if one, two or even five of the accusations are spurious there’s still plenty of smoke from which we can infer that there’s fire. At least I think that’s what you mean. Note that this accuser does not accuse him of any Sexual assault. Just that he spiked her drink, and she left. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/56 "2015-01-28T18:01:42Z")
Thanks for the clarification. I did not realize that. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/57 "2015-01-31T15:07:15Z")
The “after two sips” part could be an unconscious exaggeration. That doesn’t render the whole story bogus. But that’s all beside the question, which is whether there were drugs at the time that could have done it. Regarding reliability, that may not have been an issue. An attacker could use a reasonably safe dose, and if it doesn’t quite work, no big problem. Try again next time or next girl. So, the question shouldn’t be whether there are drugs where the effect could be reliably achieved, only whether it could be achieved sometimes, with relatively low risk of fatality (as far as we know, he never killed anyone, and that would have been harder to cover up.) ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/58 "2016-10-12T23:52:30Z")
I realize that replying to this thread makes me a bit of a necromancer, but the thread revolves around one of my pet peeves: some people will assert reactions to drugs that make no sense simply because they have no idea how drugs (or even their own bodies) work. I have ADD and I used to take Ritalin and similar drugs to treat it. I occasionally have discussions about these meds with people who assert bizarre reactions to these drugs. One person told me that she couldn’t take Adderall because it made her bruise at the slightest touch. Another told me that Ritalin made him itch all over. (He had probably heard that opiates can have that effect and just applied the idea to stimulants). A third person said that Concerta made his vision blurry but that Ritalin was just fine. (Concerta and Ritalin are the same drug, just delivered differently). Another took Prozac and quit after three days because she said it made her feel blissed out and loopy. SSRIs, including Prozac, don’t work that way. It takes nearly a month to reach a therapeutic level of saturation. I suspect that she wasn’t terribly excited about taking what she thought of as a “happy pill” and subconsciously felt the way she _expected_ to feel. Now, some people have unpredictable reactions to certain drugs. But I’ve heard a number of people complain about side effects that have no obvious causal mechanism and, frankly don’t make a lot of sense. I can’t help wondering if this woman was simply retroactively applying the way she thought she should feel to her memory. That’s a very, very human thing to do. Cosby is clearly a predator and I don’t doubt that he did unforgivable things to many, many women. Given that context, I’m inclined to believe any woman who says she was drugged and raped by Bill Cosby. I just don’t believe that this woman felt the Quaaludes (or whatever) after two sips. I also don’t doubt that she sincerely remembers it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/59 "2016-10-13T00:28:36Z")
> [@EdelweissPirate](#): > > Another told me that Ritalin made him itch all over. (He had probably heard that opiates can have that effect and just applied the idea to stimulants). A third person said that Concerta made his vision blurry but that Ritalin was just fine. (Concerta and Ritalin are the same drug, just delivered differently). Itching is a rare side effect of Ritalin, according to [WebMD](http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-9475/ritalin-oral/details/list-sideeffects). Blurred vision is also a rare side effect, although I’ll leave it to others to say whether it matters whether it is Ritalin or Concerta. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895/60 "2016-10-13T01:07:15Z")
Yes; that’s part of my point. There are all sorts of side effects that show up in drug trials that are likely attributable to the psychosomatic assumptions of the subjects in the trial. If a symptom is reported in the trials, it generally shows up on the warning label, or at least that’s my understanding. Just check out the reported side effects of obecalp some time. It’s not that the people I spoke with couldn’t possibly have experienced the symptoms they described to me. But they were reported (to me) with a tone of absolute certainty. The poor woman who Cosby drugged seemed to have a similar tone of certainty about how fast the drug acted on her. But the pharmacokinetics say it probably didn’t happen that way; her memory is most likely colored by her after-the-fact knowledge that she was drugged. Eyewitnesses to crimes, it turns out, are [frequently unreliable](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/). When my dad bought four new tires for his car, he’d pontificate at length about how much better the car rode with new tires. (I’m a mechanical engineer; I can say with certainty that he was imagining the improvement to the car’s suspension). Generally speaking, human beings are terrible data acquisition devices. Compounding this, people have all sorts of unusual ideas about how their bodies work. If everyone had a solid basic understanding of biology and chemistry, homeopathy wouldn’t exist. I’m not faulting anyone for not having a particular kind of understanding, but I do think that someone who’s fuzzy on the scientific details might find that her expectation of how it feels to be drugged overwhelms her memory of how it actually felt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-date-rape-drug-that-works-in-some-of-the-ways-reported-is-there/710895.md?page=4)