# "There is no God" is an opinion, not a fact. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925 "2005-01-09T20:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/361 "2005-01-11T03:47:58Z")
I somehow missed this: > [@Loopydude](#): > > You are perhaps correct: It was nutty of me to expect such open-mindedness. No, It was nutty to expect to dictate to others how they will view you. A bit of advice: don’t be bothered if people view you as an asshole. Because you cannot stop them from seeing you that way as long as you insist on using words that you _know_ they consider insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/362 "2005-01-11T03:49:33Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Society would either fall apart or be communist without belief. I wonder what percentage of aid-workers are Atheists? I wonder what percentage of Tsunami donators are Atheists? Keep your wonderings to yourself. When you have some facts, you may have something to add. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/363 "2005-01-11T03:52:10Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > I will remind you that there is no way to _prove_ that Giant Robot Turtles are not controlling your mind, which is the point of the OP’s rant. Nyah nyah, you fucker. But can you be totally honest and answer the question? And why did you call me a fucker? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/364 "2005-01-11T03:56:35Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > I somehow missed this:No, It was nutty to expect to dictate to others how they will view you. A bit of advice: don’t be bothered if people view you as an asshole. Because you cannot stop them from seeing you that way as long as you insist on using words that you _know_ they consider insulting. When have I dictated anything? And I don’t think it’s necessary to view the term “delusional” as insulting if one can appreciate its applicability. I don’t actually know that all people of faith regard that assessment as insulting, especially if they are thoughtful about what I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/365 "2005-01-11T04:12:43Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > When have I dictated anything? You seem to not like the idea that people will view you as an asshole. You seem to argue that they should _not_ view you as an asshole. I say that you should have no such expectation. > [@](#): > > And I don’t think it’s necessary to view the term “delusional” as insulting if one can appreciate its applicability. Don’t care, don’t care, don’t care. Again: **DON’T CARE** if that’s how you see it. Others—many others—will see it as insulting and _will_ see you as an asshole. You have absolutely zero say over this fact. You have two options: suck it up and accept that people are thinking you are an asshole, or start using language that is considered less insulting. Those are your two options. Deal with them. > [@](#): > > I don’t actually know that all people of faith regard that assessment as insulting, especially if they are thoughtful about what I’m saying. I don’t actually know that 100% of them view it as an insult, but I’d say that chances are pretty good that yeah, a big chunk of them are going to take it that way. You take your chances. Deal with a whole lot of people thinking you are an asshole, or change your language. There really isn’t anything more to discuss. Blathering about how you don’t _mean_ it that way, and that if people would be more (spare me) “thoughtful” about what you are saying doesn’t guarantee jack. You take your chances that a lot—_a lot_—of people will think you are an asshole. How you deal with that, or how you feel about that, is your problem. Just remember that others are entitled to their opinion, and they have _every_ right to see you as an asshole if they feel you’ve _earned_ the title. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@seal\_tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_tamer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/366 "2005-01-11T04:16:37Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > , a Modest Mouse CD, and some lube. Am I so out of the loop that I’ve never heard of this band? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/367 "2005-01-11T04:21:41Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Best idea I’ve heard in a long time. Let the believers start it off by undoing the untold damage they’ve done over the last several milennia. How? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/368 "2005-01-11T04:31:49Z")
> [@seal tamer](#): > > Am I so out of the loop that I’ve never heard of this band? Don’t you know that uber annoying song with the refrain “all right all ready we all float on” At least, I think that’s the lyric, I hate the song. I’m not going to comment on this mess right now, my Gnostic Agnostic two cents will be thrown in at some point later. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/369 "2005-01-11T04:33:49Z")
> [@seal tamer](#): > > Am I so out of the loop that I’ve never heard of this band? You’ve probably heard “Float On” but just didn’t know who it was. If you heard the riff you’d probably go, “oh, that.” ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/370 "2005-01-11T04:36:29Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > You have two options: suck it up and accept that people are thinking you are an asshole, or start using language that is considered less insulting. Those are your two options. Deal with them. Oh, I do, I do, and I’m not as bothered as you might suggest (Dictating thought? Muwahahah! Shall I use my powers for good, or for EEEEVIL!). I’m willing to gamble there are other options, though. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/371 "2005-01-11T04:42:22Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Oh, I do, I do, and I’m not as bothered as you might suggest (Dictating thought? Muwahahah! Shall I use my powers for good, or for EEEEVIL!). I’m willing to gamble there are other options, though. Then there was never anything to discuss and I don’t know why you bothered. If you are sanguine with a lot of people thinking you are an asshole, then there is no reason for you to argue how about how we interpret your words. I wouldn’t hold my breath hoping that a whole lot of people will be convinced that you calling them “deluded” isn’t an insult, though. But hey. You just keep on doing what you’re doing. We’ll keep thinking you’re an asshole. We’re on the same page now. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/372 "2005-01-11T04:42:45Z")
> [@I Love Me](#): > > By the very definition of “delusion” (which has already been posted here) people who believe in Martians controlling us, Pandas creating us, or the Christian God creating us are, in fact, delusional. I realize this makes you uncomfortable. Yet it remains true. I believe that God caused abiogenesis. [http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB090.html](http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB090.html) Is that delusional? If so, why? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/373 "2005-01-11T04:48:30Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > I will remind you that there is no way to _prove_ that Giant Robot Turtles are not controlling your mind, which is the point of the OP’s rant. Nyah nyah, you fucker. I don’t think you’ve been paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/374 "2005-01-11T04:52:53Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > If you are sanguine with a lot of people thinking you are an asshole, then there is no reason for you to argue how about how we interpret your words. Odd you have faith in your powers of perception and reading comprehension. I don’t think I’ve ever debated someone who tried to put more words in my mouth in such a short period. Sanguine? Riiight. How about battling resignation? Or were you going to ask? Probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/375 "2005-01-11T04:57:41Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Oh, I do, I do, and I’m not as bothered as you might suggest (Dictating thought? Muwahahah! Shall I use my powers for good, or for EEEEVIL!). I’m willing to gamble there are other options, though. Such as…? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/376 "2005-01-11T04:58:18Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > I believe that God caused abiogenesis. > \ > Is that delusional? If so, why? Yes, it is. Because a rational answer will have nothing to do with invisible fairies, powerful wizards, secret spells, or a vast and trick-playing God. Meanwhile , (for others in this thread) I don’t understand why someone saying that one of your **beliefs** is deluded implies a personal attack. Yes, people often cling way too tightly to their beliefs, but, _you are not your beliefs_. And quite frankly telling someone that they can’t call you on the carpet when you imagine things is kinda… less than honest in a debate. Person 1: Well, how do you think Phenomona A happened? Person 2: Pixies. Person 1: Pixies, are you kidding me? Person 1: Nope. Pixies. Replace pixies with God and you see how this sounds to most rational people. (And no, I’m not saying theists are totally irrational, but to the degree they place belief in something whose very definition says it doesn’t exist in reality… they hold irrational beliefs) Oh, and, “There is no God” is the null-hypothesis. And one that has not been falsified. Non-belief is the natural and rational state one has in reaction to claims without evidence. You don’t have to find proof to not believe in something, you have to find proof to believe in it. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/377 "2005-01-11T05:04:40Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Such as…? “I can see how having faith in God and His miracles must be regarded as delusory to a person who does not believe without proof, and within those constraints, it is a valid characterization. I do have the conviction my faith gives me, however, that my beliefs are not delusory, despite my inability to prove that to you.” ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/378 "2005-01-11T05:09:00Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > How about battling resignation? Or were you going to ask? Probably not. Look—I’ve made it really simple, for several pages now. You are expressing yourself in a way that is _guaranteed_ to insult a big percentage of people. That is a fact. You decide what you want to do with this fact. You can complain because you are being called an asshole for deliberately using language that you have been _told_ (repeatedly) is considered insulting. But that isn’t going to get you anywhere, because all your explaining isn’t going to change the fact. People will and **do** consider you an asshole because they see you as deliberately insulting them. So either you are okay with this (that people think you’re an asshole), or you’re not. It doesn’t really matter to me either way. You also seem to want to spin and argue about whether people _should_ consider you an asshole, or whether they _ought_ to consider you an asshole. You want to hope that people somehow can be convinced that you’re not an asshole (even though you continue to do something that they see as insulting). If you want to waste your energy trying to have it _all_ your way (call people something that they consider assholish, but somehow _not_ have them think you’re an asshole), then knock yourself out. I don’t feel much sympathy for you, since I think you are foolhardy to think you can have it all your way, but hey—it’s _your_ energy to waste. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/379 "2005-01-11T05:25:07Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > This is so wrong on so many levels it’s hard to know where to start. Maybe an example will help the most: > > Einstein’s theory of General Relativity has been tested to the limits of our technological capability, and _never_ has anyone been able to demonstrate that what we have observed deviates from predictions based on the theory, recently to an accuracy of better than around 50 parts-per-million. Pretty good, right? Huh, what’d they use before that? They didn’t use Newtonian Physics for a few decades didn’t they? Were there any accepted laws? Tested to the limits of their technological capability? Perhaps laws proven to not be correct in all instances? Did they change these laws? Perhaps to incorperate General Relativity? Naaaaaaaaah. Wasn’t it just a few years ago that according to accpted physics that a bumble bee couldn’t fly? Until calculations were changed because while fluid dynamics could approximate air it couldn’t be completely accurate? How about Democatus’ belief that all matter was composed of indivisble particles called atoms? Assumed wrong then shown right then proved wrong. Wowzers. Transmutation of elements, the four elements, so many fun things that have been in and out. Noble gasses that can react with other elements. Why does gravity work? Could it just stop one day? Possibly, but unlikely. I’m not saying that everything must be taken on faith but science requires you to believe that you believe in what you’ve got until something proves it wrong. Keep saying something’s impossible and eventually you’ll likely be wrong. Get back to me when GR has turned 150. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925/380 "2005-01-11T05:26:37Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Easy. All I need is a bottle of wine, some scented candles, a Modest Mouse CD, and some lube. Well now there’s the flaw in your error. Moudest Mouse just wouldn’t work. P.S. I’m so much more into Vodka than wine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-god-is-an-opinion-not-a-fact/283925.md?page=20)