# There is no reason to obey traffic lights **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 27, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173 "2011-01-27T12:41:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/21 "2011-01-27T18:08:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s a free country. If we wanted to make all the traffic lights mauve and teal, we could. Can’t we have _any_ threads without arguing about the gay agenda? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![xoferew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/e9a140/32.png) [@xoferew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xoferew)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/22 "2011-01-27T18:09:49Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > On what authority was it decided that green should be “go” and red should be “stop?” In a democracy it’s the authority of we the people, right? If enough people cared we could campaign for some other color scheme but I think a lot of confused people would die during the transition. Sort of off the topic (such as it is), my Japanese teacher once regaled the class with a lecture on the superiority of Japanese traffic lights which tend to be horizontal, saying I think that the color on the far left was chosen for that position because you could see it in your peripheral vision better than other colors. So we could add a discussion to this thread about using the same colors we always have but putting them upside down! ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/23 "2011-01-27T18:14:54Z")
I’m relatively sure this is a parody of Libertarians. Either that or a good example of Poe’s law in action. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/24 "2011-01-27T18:41:25Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > On what authority was it decided that green should be “go” and red should be “stop?” The electorate’s authority. In other words, yours. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/25 "2011-01-27T18:56:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Can’t we have _any_ threads without arguing about the gay agenda? But admit it. Those traffic lights would look fabulous. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/26 "2011-01-27T19:03:15Z")
There’s a more comprehensive discussion of the history of the colors of traffic lights in, of all things, Marvin Harris’ book **Cultural Materialism: Towards a Science of Culture**. Harris was criticizing anthropologists who came up with what he saw as airy-fairy theories about where the choices came from based on the spectrum or something, and responded with a close examination of the historic record. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/27 "2011-01-27T19:08:08Z")
> [@](#): > > If that’s my preference, and there’s nothing but “custom” and the oppression of the majority (honking at me) preventing me from following my druthers, then why should I respect it? Because, as has already been pointed out by other posters, if you don’t you will probably die horribly. Possibly not a big loss, but you will also most likely kill someone else who’s only crime is that you decided to be a contrarian and do your own thing. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/28 "2011-01-27T20:36:30Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > … I can still shut it down for you before it turns too bloody. > > [/Moderating] I saw what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/29 "2011-01-27T21:48:09Z")
The strategy where you obey the traffic light is a [correlated equilibrium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlated_equilibrium) of the appropriate game (which isn’t too hard to write down, but requires a little bit beyond basic game theory). It’s very likely Pareto optimal, so you’re never going to find a better strategy, and you should actually follow the lights. ---
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/30 "2011-01-27T21:51:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But admit it. Those traffic lights would look fabulous. But where would it end? We wouldn’t be saluting the Red, White and Blue of Old Glory, it’d be Pink, Cream and Aqua! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/31 "2011-01-27T21:53:35Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > The strategy where you obey the traffic light is a [correlated equilibrium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlated_equilibrium) of the appropriate game (which isn’t too hard to write down, but requires a little bit beyond basic game theory). It’s very likely Pareto optimal, so you’re never going to find a better strategy, and you should actually follow the lights. It’s comforting to know that obeying the traffic lights can be shown, mathematically, to be the preferred strategy. I was worried there for a minute. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/32 "2011-01-27T22:04:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s comforting to know that obeying the traffic lights can be shown, mathematically, to be the preferred strategy. I was worried there for a minute. 😉 To be completely fair, the model I’m using assumes that there’s always another car waiting to cross in each direction after the current one passes, and that you can see this. In a more realistic model, the optimal strategy will become more complicated, but it’ll still have you obeying the light most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/33 "2011-01-27T22:07:34Z")
The optimal strategy would include the case where you have a red light but you can’t see another vehicle on the road, and converse case, where you have a green light, but the intersection is completely blocked by cars. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/34 "2011-01-27T22:13:39Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > On what authority was it decided that green should be “go” and red should be “stop?” Let’s have a vote – “go” shall be defined as “yellow”; “stop” shall be defined as “red”. Traffic lights shall have two fuctions, go and stop. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/35 "2011-01-27T22:16:22Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > On what authority was it decided that green should be “go” and red should be “stop?” Seems to me to be a completely arbitrary rule, decided by a minority of people in power with no input from those who might prefer it the other way around, or a different choice of colors. Furthermore, there is nothing except hidebound tradition, backed by force of law, compelling us to do it this way and not another – if not for that, I could choose to, say, slow down on green, stop on yellow and zoom right through on red. If that’s my preference, and there’s nothing but “custom” and the oppression of the majority (honking at me) preventing me from following my druthers, then why should I respect it? Hear, hear! In a truly free society, the strong would decide for themselves what the colors mean and it would be up to them to persuade or force the sheep of the populace to sign on to their interpretations. Whichever interpretation bested the others in the free market of ideas would become the standard. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/36 "2011-01-27T23:05:21Z")
The imposition of a color code by which one is “allowed” to operate or not operate one’s own property is a violation of the fundamental principles of individual sovereignty and self-ownership, and represents no less than an act of aggression by the state. In a truly ideal world, the flow of traffic will be naturally regulated by market forces. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/37 "2011-01-27T23:27:19Z")
Red was chosen for “Stop!” because, at the time, it was the color believed to best get a driver’s attention. However, recent studies revealed that a specific yellow/green hue was most effective – but since red lights & stop signs are so ingrained into our culture, the brightest color’s usage is limited to fire engines and [school crosswalk signs.](http://www.cottonwoodlions.org/Images/Photoalbum/photoalbum081006b.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/38 "2011-01-27T23:31:02Z")
Regulation of color is theft. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/39 "2011-01-27T23:37:21Z")
No, proper tea is theft. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173/40 "2011-01-27T23:38:15Z")
Contradicting me is theft. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-reason-to-obey-traffic-lights/569173.md?page=3)