# There is no Santa **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 26, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234 "2005-12-26T06:33:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/1 "2005-12-26T06:33:29Z")
Evil Johnny Angel, whom you may recognize by his goatee, thinks this is hillarious: [http://www.ldnews.com/fastsearchresults/ci\_3334327](http://www.ldnews.com/fastsearchresults/ci_3334327) However, Chaotic Neutral Johnny Angel is merely saddened. Personally, it burns me that people still lie to their children about Santa Claus. It burns me even more that when confonted about it, parents fall back to the cowardly horseshit story about Santa being the spirit of Christmas love and brotherhood and Jesus-shaped sugar cookies. Of course, most adults who tell this lie won’t admit it’s a crock of shit no matter how many times you shock them in the nipples with a busted table lamp. They can’t, otherwise they would have to admit that they have been complicit in a conspiracy to play a prank on millions of children worldwide and later solace themselves that lies make childhood better. That is to say, I’m completely against this Santa Claus bullshit. However, I don’t think this lady should have taken it upon herself to blow the whistle. That lie is between the parents and the kid. Also, between the parents and Satan, but that’s another matter. If I ever have children, here’s what I’m going to tell them: There is no Santa. The people who tell you there’s a Santa are lying, but they think it’s a good lie. They think they’re lying because it will make you happy, but they’re really lying because it makes them happy. But if you talk about the truth, they’re going to assume there’s something wrong with you, claiming that if you weren’t psychologically damaged, you’d want to believe the lie. The best thing is to lie right back. Pretend you believe. Or don’t. Fuck 'em, they lied to you. If they’ve got a problem tell them to come talk to me. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/2 "2005-12-26T06:43:59Z")
Where can _I_ find Jesus-shaped sugar cookies? That lady make me laugh, but she makes the children cry. She really didn’t have to tell them Santa died, but [interject] I can’t rhyme for shit, so I’ll just say: Teacher is a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/3 "2005-12-26T06:48:57Z")
Hit post too early. > [@Bitch of a Teacher](#): > > “Those same children are going to know someday that what their parents taught them is false,” she ex-plained. “There is no Santa Claus.” Get a grip, woman. You think it’s your job to correct the untruths parents tell their kids? What next? That road reflectors do not, in fact, have a little man inside with a flashlight who turns it on when he sees cars coming? Shit, compared to the myriad of things parents lie to their kids about, Santa Claus is pretty fucking harmless. ---
**Author:** ![dbuzman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de0a6/32.png) [@dbuzman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dbuzman)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/4 "2005-12-26T07:10:32Z")
> [@](#): > > but it goes against my conscience to teach something which I know to be false to children, who are impressionable > [@](#): > > I did not tell the students Santa Claus was dead,” she explained. “I said there was a man named Nickolas of Myrna who died in 343 A.D., upon whom the Santa Claus myth (is based). And she doesn’t think that at least some of these children she herself describes as impressionable might just hear that as “Santa is dead”? What a moron. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/5 "2005-12-26T07:46:51Z")
What a heartless bitch. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/6 "2005-12-26T07:51:23Z")
Read some of the recent reviews of her very silly looking (and apparently self published) [book](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0965695573/qid=1135583085/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-3850386-1917607?n=507846&s=books&v=glance) at Amazon. A review of her other self-published book might be revealing: “Theresa writes with a unique conversational style that may be off-putting to some, and she makes frequent mention of her devotion to God.” Hmm. Wonder if “truth” was her primary motivator, or was it possibly dismissive attitude toward belief systems that differ from hers? Not that Santa Claus is a belief system. Only, maybe she’s, like, one of those people who don’t have sex because it might lead to dancing. Aren’t they all anti-Santa and Easter Bunny? All “secularization of Xmas” and junk? I’m just sayin. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/7 "2005-12-26T07:55:12Z")
Oh shit. This seems to happen every year, doesn’t it? No matter how you feel about kids believing in Santa (and I think that the time to tell them the truth is when they start asking), you don’t spoil it for other families. I think I cried for ten minutes after my mom answered that yes, it was her and my father who put out the presents, then went back to my toys. (I continued to semi-believe in the Easter Bunny, just for fun) What a fucking cunt. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/8 "2005-12-26T08:03:24Z")
[Santa Claus is dead](http://www.queenofwands.net/d/20051006.html)… ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/9 "2005-12-26T11:34:09Z")
> [@From linked story](#): > > Since the issue involves personnel, Bell said Monday, there is little he can say about the incident, adding that it has not been determined if any disciplinary action is warranted against Farrisi. Disciplinary action?!?! For teaching the truth? What the hell is wrong with the USA? I say good for the teacher. If parents want to lie to their children about magic elfs that break into the house at night and leave gifts is their business but a school is supposed to educate children about known truths. A fairy reindeer with a red nose spawned from an American advert campain and a fat dude in a red suit is NOT a known truth. Most children figure it out as they get older and the parents never have to deal with it. I think the parents are just pissed because the children made them face their lie. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/10 "2005-12-26T12:00:54Z")
> [@Seven](#): > > Disciplinary action?!?! For teaching the truth? > > What the hell is wrong with the USA? > > I say good for the teacher. If parents want to lie to their children about magic elfs that break into the house at night and leave gifts is their business but a school is supposed to educate children about known truths. A fairy reindeer with a red nose spawned from an American advert campain and a fat dude in a red suit is NOT a known truth. > > Most children figure it out as they get older and the parents never have to deal with it. I think the parents are just pissed because the children made them face their lie. Quackers. It’s not this ladys place to go stirring up a bunch of crap. It’s certainly not the place of a substitute music teacher. I’m all for telling the truth and fighting ignorance and all that blah blah blah, but this isn’t some great truth you need to go spilling out to a bunch of kids. This isn’t some great and harmful untruth that needs exposing. Personally, I think some of the parents are upset because their kids came home from school crying. ---
**Author:** ![EvilGhandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@EvilGhandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilGhandi)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/11 "2005-12-26T12:12:47Z")
Is anyone out there (and I mean **out** there) really believe that children are damaged by santa? Holey fucking christ on a fucking vibrating pogo stick. When my boy was a little one, I had him climb a ladder to the roof and I’d pass him a pan of water and a couple of carrots for santas reindeer. That, In my estimation, is far more dangerous than him beliving in santa. But you know what? I was raising a man. A boy I knew some day would grow up and have to fend for himself. If your kids break down and sob the first time they found out you lied, you raised pussies. Ya know what, if you flick a light off and on it won’t make the bulb blow. If you dont finish your dinner, no one in the third world will have a clue. If you raise your kids to be hyper sensitive little fucks, then guess what they are going to be hyper sensitive little fucks. Just like you. So knock it off. Oh and merry Christmass ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/12 "2005-12-26T12:13:27Z")
> [@Seven](#): > > Disciplinary action?!?! For teaching the truth? > > What the hell is wrong with the USA? > > I say good for the teacher. If parents want to lie to their children about magic elfs that break into the house at night and leave gifts is their business but a school is supposed to educate children about known truths. A fairy reindeer with a red nose spawned from an American advert campain and a fat dude in a red suit is NOT a known truth. > > Most children figure it out as they get older and the parents never have to deal with it. I think the parents are just pissed because the children made them face their lie. What an enormous pile of steaming, self-serving bullshit. I suppose you’re not entirely to blame, seeing as how you’re a victim of your environment. And at least you didn’t actually come out and cry “this board is about fighting ignorance!!!” But implicit in that ignorance-fighting is the responsibility to actually have a clue as to what you’re talking about. The story in question was a music class for first-graders, not The Practical Reality of Gift Delivery. And the bitch in question did not respond truthfully to a question from one of her students; she interjected her own beliefs into a poem in a fit of self-important imagination-crushing ego masturbation. If you’re so hell-bent on delivering known truths, why don’t you dispense with the rationalizations and actually speak the truth: that you know what’s best for children better than their parents? If you could speak the truth, then we could all share the Real truth with you, which is that you don’t know a good god damn of what the truth is outside of your own closed-off little self-righteous, self-indulgent mindset. You want to know what the hell is wrong with the USA? What’s wrong is that it’s filled with vociferous cock-knockers who are so fucking arrogant that they think their beliefs are more important than anyone else’s and they’ll use any rationalization they can to impose their beliefs on everyone else. That includes any fucking soulless halfwit who would tell a first-grader that there’s no Santa Claus and then pat himself on the back for “spreading the truth.” ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/13 "2005-12-26T12:35:27Z")
> [@Johnny Angel](#): > > That lie is between the parents and the kid. Also, between the parents and Satan, but that’s another matter. > . You know, Satan doesn’t rea… err…nothing, forget about it. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/14 "2005-12-26T12:39:56Z")
> [@EvilGhandi](#): > > If your kids break down and sob the first time they found out you lied, you raised pussies. Yeah, sure. A real manly man doesn’t cry. Even a 4 yo real manly man. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/15 "2005-12-26T12:48:03Z")
**clairobscur** wrote: > [@](#): > > You know, Satan doesn’t rea… err…nothing, forget about it. Pffft. I know Satan exists. Who else would be hiding WMDs for Saddam? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/16 "2005-12-26T12:51:46Z")
But, Santa Claus **is** [dead! (CLICK LINK HERE)](http://brainsoup.net/pictures/poorsanta.jpg) I’m a savage. A gleeful savage. ---
**Author:** ![EvilGhandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@EvilGhandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilGhandi)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/17 "2005-12-26T12:59:17Z")
**clairobscur** "Yeah, sure. A real manly man doesn’t cry. Even a 4 yo real manly man. " What in the hell? You have four year old men at your house? Or were you being sarcastic? I really can’t tell. From your post either you have grown men that are four years old sobbing like pussies or you cant handle a child that is four years old asking if there is a santa. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/18 "2005-12-26T16:21:55Z")
> [@Johnny Angel](#): > > Personally, it burns me that people still lie to their children about Santa Claus. > [@Seven](#): > > Disciplinary action?!?! For teaching the truth? > . . . > If parents want to lie to their children about magic elfs that break into the house at night and leave gifts is their business but a school is supposed to educate children about known truths. This is silly. Letting kids believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and other cultural beings is not “lying.” It is part of the cultural experience of growing up. The kid who gradually begins to doubt that Santa is real and then finally realizes that it is a story is exercising powers of discernment and the final realization is a milestone for the kid who can look on it as a turning point in growing up. It is not a major milestone, but it is a minor rite of passage in which the kid can say “I used to believe that, but now I know better–I am growing up.” Now, I would agree that parents who go all out to present Santa as real, long after the kids should have been growing out of that, or who make belief in Santa some sort of test of the child, (_If you don’t believe in Santa, he won’t bring you gifts._), is behaving stupidly. However, having a few cultural figures that little kids can enjoy and then get a second enjoyment as they “figure out” that it is a story is not “lying.” ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/19 "2005-12-26T16:31:39Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > You want to know what the hell is wrong with the USA? What’s wrong is that it’s filled with vociferous cock-knockers who are so fucking arrogant that they think their beliefs are more important than anyone else’s and they’ll use any rationalization they can to impose their beliefs on everyone else. > > That includes any fucking soulless halfwit who would tell a first-grader that there’s no Santa Claus and then pat himself on the back for “spreading the truth.” I’m putting this on my _holiday_ cards next year. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Grits\_and\_Hard\_Toast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Grits\_and\_Hard\_Toast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grits_and_Hard_Toast)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/20 "2005-12-26T16:45:44Z")
> [@Seven](#): > > Disciplinary action?!?! For teaching the truth? > > What the hell is wrong with the USA? > > I say good for the teacher. If parents want to lie to their children about magic elfs that break into the house at night and leave gifts is their business but a school is supposed to educate children about known truths. A fairy reindeer with a red nose spawned from an American advert campain and a fat dude in a red suit is NOT a known truth. > > Most children figure it out as they get older and the parents never have to deal with it. I think the parents are just pissed because the children made them face their lie. I personally would not tell my kids Santa was real, and encourage that belief. But I would realize that put me in the minority and if I was to start telling other people’s kids their parents were lying to them, I would know there would be some very upset parents. What bothers me most about this woman, was she went out of her way to tell the kids Santa didn’t exist. They weren’t questioning her about. All she had to do was read a popular Christmas poem. She chose to interupt the poem by adding her own comments of how it wasn’t true. I don’t buy her reason, “The poem has great literary value, but it goes against my conscience to teach something which I know to be false to children, who are impressionable,” Her assignment was to read the story. That is all she had to do. I am guessing 99% of the stories read to kids at that age are about made up characters. Would she have had a need to point out while reading Goldilocks and the Three Bears, that bears really don’t live in houses, that they don’t really eat porridge in bowls, they don’t really sleep in beds? No she would simply read the story and move on the the next assignment. She could have done that with this story. I might feel differently if the children had brought up the questions, and she didn’t want to out right lie and say it was true. But this wasn’t the case, she she went out of her way to tell the kids their parents lie to them when they say Santa brings the presents. She had to know this would cause problems. She even admits she considered talking to the school’s administration about her concerns, but she chose instead to read the story and point out how it wasn’t true. To me that shows a willful disrespect to the parents, and the school. I would think her actions justify the school not ever trusting her judgement again, and not using her again as a substitute teacher. And if she was to try to claim she didn’t know it would be such a big deal, I would be even more apt to not ever hire her again, thinking she doesn’t have a sufficient thought process to be trusted with the care of small children. My guess is that she did this on purpose, knowing the story would make news, and give her publicity. She probably thought it would help her develope a base of other parents who don’t think it is right to lie to kids about Santa, who might by her books in the future. But I think it backfired, because even people like me who agree with her stance, feel she went overboard, and wouldn’t want to buy any books she would write. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234.md?page=2)