# There is no Santa **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 26, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234 "2005-12-26T06:33:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/21 "2005-12-26T16:48:03Z")
Thank you **SolGrundy** for putting it to the words I couldn’t find. If my 4yo son came home from pre-K crying because a teacher (much less a Sub) said this to him I think I’d have driven down to the school and broken her nose. Right, wrong, don’t care. It’s not your fucking place to make these decisions for my family. Get a hold of your fucking self, you self-important, self-seving fuck. You try to focus on your job and I’ll handle mine. Bitch. I will be having this discussion with all his futre teachers about what falls under their jurisdiction and _what does not_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/22 "2005-12-26T16:50:46Z")
> [@dbuzman](#): > > And she doesn’t think that at least some of these children she herself describes as impressionable might just hear that as “Santa is dead”? > What a moron. I don’t consider myself impressionable, but to hear that St Nick died in in the 4th century , I can only conclude that Santa is dead. Let me add that as a parent, I could get really upset if a fuckin teacher told my kid that I was a liar. She should be fired ! ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/23 "2005-12-26T16:54:13Z")
I wonder if she lets kids know that many horses end up as dog food, too. ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/24 "2005-12-26T16:55:09Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > You want to know what the hell is wrong with the USA? What’s wrong is that it’s filled with vociferous cock-knockers who are so fucking arrogant that they think their beliefs are more important than anyone else’s and they’ll use any rationalization they can to impose their beliefs on everyone else. > > That includes any fucking soulless halfwit who would tell a first-grader that there’s no Santa Claus and then pat himself on the back for “spreading the truth.” :: shakes SolGrundy’s hand and walks off, whistling :: Thank you. Fucking A. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/25 "2005-12-26T16:57:58Z")
Why would anyone feel the need to ruin Christmas for a couple of dozen four year olds? I wonder if she spends her spare time cursing rainbows and kicking puppies. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/26 "2005-12-26T17:04:11Z")
“And the next time you talk to my wife like that, you’ll get worse. She cried for an hour. It isn’t enough she slaves teaching your stupid kids how to read and write, and you have to bawl her out, eh.” “You get out of here, Mr. Welch!” “Now wait. I want to pay for my drink.” ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/27 "2005-12-26T17:36:12Z")
A Visit from Saint Nickolas has great literary value? Now that’s a myth! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/28 "2005-12-26T18:34:14Z")
> [@Seven](#): > > Disciplinary action?!?! For teaching the truth? > > What the hell is wrong with the USA? > > I say good for the teacher. If parents want to lie to their children about magic elfs that break into the house at night and leave gifts is their business but a school is supposed to educate children about known truths. A fairy reindeer with a red nose spawned from an American advert campain and a fat dude in a red suit is NOT a known truth. > > Most children figure it out as they get older and the parents never have to deal with it. I think the parents are just pissed because the children made them face their lie. Hmm. Well, it’s also the truth that men and women have sexual intercourse to make babies. No objections to explaining THAT to the kids, right? And it’s the truth that men cheat on thier wives, and women on their husbands, by having sexual intercourse with other people. I assume you’re in favor of explaining that to children. Also that sometimes women give men oral sex, which means that they put the man’s penis in thier mouths and move their heads until the man’s penis emits semen. That should be fun to explain, since it’s the truth. And it’s also true that some women are so desperate for crack cocaine that they will get into a car with a man they don’t know and perform an act of the aforementioned oral sex for $10. Yeah, truth! Bring it on! These kids need to know it, and NOW. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/29 "2005-12-26T18:37:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Hmm. > > Well, it’s also the truth that men and women have sexual intercourse to make babies. No objections to explaining THAT to the kids, right? And it’s the truth that men cheat on thier wives, and women on their husbands, by having sexual intercourse with other people. I assume you’re in favor of explaining that to children. Also that sometimes women give men oral sex, which means that they put the man’s penis in thier mouths and move their heads until the man’s penis emits semen. That should be fun to explain, since it’s the truth. And it’s also true that some women are so desperate for crack cocaine that they will get into a car with a man they don’t know and perform an act of the aforementioned oral sex for $10. > > Yeah, truth! Bring it on! These kids need to know it, and NOW. Thanks. Now I have an image of Santa blowing some John for more crack. Ouch. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/30 "2005-12-26T19:16:34Z")
Well, i think the teacher in question could certainly have shown a little more consideration for other people’s feelings, and for the way that other parents want to raise their kids. She certainly seemed to take some sort of vicious pleasure in breaking the bad news. I still think that any disciplinary action against her would be ridiculous. Just out of interest, what course of action would people advocate for a teacher if a six year old kid came up and asked, point blank, “Is Santa real?” I did love this line from the article: > [@](#): > > Farrisi doesn’t believe in Santa Claus, and she doesn’t think anyone else should, either. The reporter makes it sound as if there might actually be a Santa Claus, as if the issue is still up for debate among adults as well as children. ---
**Author:** ![Anastasaeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Anastasaeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anastasaeon)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/31 "2005-12-26T19:28:02Z")
That’s right! There is no Santa! Let’s take away Sesame Street and all those cartoons, too! That’s none of it _real_! Puppets don’t talk! Moving pictures are not real people! Educational? Pah! Replace cartoons with real people! Fictional books? Burn 'em. Not real. Imagination? Fantastical garbage! Teach them only the cold, hard facts of life, right out of the birth canal! “Shut up, kid, stop your screaming! You’re with us, now, and it’s time you learned the truth. You will fail at most of the things you try, everybody lies to you, people are out there right now having unprotected sex for crack and don’t you ever, ever forget this one: _There is no Santa Claus_! And if you _ever_ believe in something I don’t, I’ll reason it out of you somehow, or spend my life rolling my eyes behind your back.” Damn. I miss my Mom. I’m going to go call her. \*\*\* - [sub]This post is not directed at anyone in particular. There are probably reasonable arguments against most of my hyperbolic licence-laced post. I was just on a roll. [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/32 "2005-12-26T19:36:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yeah, truth! Bring it on! These kids need to know it, and NOW. You can’t handle the truth! ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/33 "2005-12-26T19:38:43Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I still think that any disciplinary action against her would be ridiculous. Well, unless they can determine that her real agenda was to push her own possibly fundamentalist beliefs on the children. Not a given; just a possibility raised by her writings, IMHO. And a hurdle to prove certainly. I’m just sayin; she doesn’t sound as wide-eyed innocent as she’s trying to come off. And I fully agree that it’s not up to a stranger to decide when you will initiate your children to the grownup truths we must all encounter. It’s a good thing “babies come from storks” didn’t come up in her classes. Or would the champions of truth in this thread be insisting that she had every right to disseminate (eww) such truths to a bunch of first graders without their parents’ permission? ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/34 "2005-12-26T19:47:48Z")
I dunno. I think what the woman did was harsh, but… I’ve never understood specifically lying to children. Why? Why can’t you just say, “In honor of this man, who did great things, we give gifts like he did.”? There… Covers it, doesn’t it? And makes it a bit more personal. I’d rather love my family than a mythical figure. I was born and raised jewish. When I was in kindergarden, my folks said to me, “A lot of your friends believe in santa. He doesn’t really exist, but there’s no reason to make them feel bad by telling them that, okay?” And it was okay. I didn’t say anything, I felt a bit smarter, and hey, we all had a good season. We invited our neighbors over for channukah, they invited us over for xmas, and I got a cool color-forms set. Santa wasn’t debunked, but neither was he pushed. I dunno. I think a lot of this is blown out of proportion. But I still don’t get the lying in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/35 "2005-12-26T19:54:45Z")
A few points I’m having a hard time with - number one, is this supposed to be a serious news story by a serious journalist? Maybe Rory Schuler should take a few journalism classes, and learn how to cut back on the purple prose. Number two - Mrs. Schaeffer was off on leave for the complication from birth **18 months later**? Holy heck, those are some complications. Third, who does this woman think she is, [Karl Rove?](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/43691) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/36 "2005-12-26T20:20:41Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > A few points I’m having a hard time with - number one, is this supposed to be a serious news story by a serious journalist? Maybe Rory Schuler should take a few journalism classes, and learn how to cut back on the purple prose. Number two - Mrs. Schaeffer was off on leave for the complication from birth **18 months later**? Holy heck, those are some complications. Third, who does this woman think she is, [Karl Rove?](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/43691) It’s a _feature_ story, not hard-breaking reportage, from a small-town daily. (If the active membership of this board all moved to Lebanon, we could elect Cecil as Mayor by a landslide.) It’s handled with a light touch, and a focus on the kids’ feelings, not an effort to provide “fair and objective” reporting. It also doesn’t attribute particular religious views to Ms. Farrisi – in fact, her attitude is much more the sort of thing seen over in Great Debates by a certain sort of person who feels compelled to Evangelize Against the Myths They’ve Been Feeding Us. (I do think **Sol Grundy** ’s rant has great and lasting value, though, and would like to see it slung at the next person to come along saying how deteriorating values are ruining America, for whatever reason.) Finally, **Bricker** ’s ironic paean to age-appropriateness in teaching deserves applause. And Ms. Farrissi? Any sincere Christian would know that St. Nicholas is in fact not dead, but with God along with the other saints. Not that you should have said that, either. Perhaps you might feel better about “Santa stories” if you removed the North Pole from your rectum. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/37 "2005-12-26T21:14:53Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Thanks. Now I have an image of Santa blowing some John for more crack. Ouch. Well, what do you “I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus” was all about? 😉 Honestly, raise your hand if being “lied” to about Santa damaged you for life? Like I said, I shed some tears, then I asked my mom if we could have french fries for dinner. Let’s get some perspective here, people. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/38 "2005-12-26T21:25:22Z")
**tomndebb** wrote: > [@](#): > > This is silly. > > Letting kids believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and other cultural beings is not “lying.” It is part of the cultural experience of growing up. You said it, brother. What kind of knucklehead puts a moral value on lying to children? These are cultural icons, like covetous jew or the welfare mother who eats steak and drives a Cadillac. What’s the harm in that? > [@](#): > > The kid who gradually begins to doubt that Santa is real and then finally realizes that it is a story is exercising powers of discernment and the final realization is a milestone for the kid who can look on it as a turning point in growing up. It is not a major milestone, but it is a minor rite of passage in which the kid can say “I used to believe that, but now I know better–I am growing up.” Putting the satirical mask aside for the moment, there probably is something to be said for the object lesson that people aren’t to be trusted, even your parents. We fill our world with personifications that are meant to instill desired behavior and attitudes, and we have established a starter myth around which a child may build cynicism like a pearl around a bit of sand, ready to face the lies that are to come. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/39 "2005-12-26T21:51:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Like I said, I shed some tears, then I asked my mom if we could have french fries for dinner. I didn’t even shed any tears…I just didn’t bother writing a letter to Santa after I figured it out. About 2 years after I figured it out, because I decided to hold onto Santa for the fun of it for a while longer. Hell I’d still do it if I didn’t go through a period of caring what other people thought. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234/40 "2005-12-26T21:59:40Z")
Huh? This story is about six- and seven-year-olds. If a kid that old hasn’t worked out that the presents didn’t arrive via reindeer, they’re gonna struggle with every other piece of logic that comes their way. d&r [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-santa/337234.md?page=3)