# There is no \[U\]Strategy\[/U\] in Running or Golf **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 4, 2003, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-u-strategy-u-in-running-or-golf/158967 "2003-03-04T08:06:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-u-strategy-u-in-running-or-golf/158967/21 "2003-03-04T19:36:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _MSU 1978:_ > Tie score, 6th inning- runner on 3rd, 1 out. Do you pitch to the batter with the infield in? This minimizes the chance of scoring on an infield hit, but the offense will have a better chance to put a grounder through the infield, scoring the run and opening up a potential big inning. Or do you walk the batter, setting up the double play. Might be smart if the current batter is Barry Bonds, might be ridiculous if the next batter is Barry Bonds. If the batter has good bat control, do you play up on the corners looking for the squeeze? Do so, and the batter might slap it right past you. And **MSU 1978** has actually chosen one of the simpler examples. For example, in the situation given by **MSU** , what pitch would you throw the batter? As he steps into the box, he’s probably going to be able to see exactly how the infield is playing him. If the corners are up, the batter is going to try and hit it either to the outfield or up the middle. If the infield is in, he’s going to try to hit something high and/or hard. If the infield is back, he’s just going to try and put something in play to score the run. However, none of these things are guaranteed, as any hitter could break those rules trying to get a hit. So if the infield is in at the corners, the pitcher is likely to work just off the plate to force the batter to hit something toward the lines; and he’s also going to be more likely to keep the ball down, or throw something that drops, hoping to induce a ground ball; and he’s going to be more likely to throw pitches that aren’t in the hitter’s strength (i.e., the hitter has trouble with curveballs, he can expect to see more curveballs; he has trouble with outside pitches, he can expect to see more outside pitches); similarly, the pitcher is probably going to want to stick to his best pitches. You’ve also got to factor in the hitter’s stance, the best pitches against a bunt, what the hitter has done in his previous at bats this game, what the hitter has done in his previous at bats against this pitcher over his career, what pitches the hitter has seen from this pitcher, what the weather is like (heavy and damp? light and bright? windy? how well can the hitter see the seams?), how good the pitcher’s looking, what pitches are working for the pitcher today, and how many pitches the pitcher has thrown (which affects how good the pitcher is looking, whether his pitches will have much movement, how many pitches you want him to throw against this hitter – which is affected by how much longer you want him to throw in this game, which is affected by how good your bullpen is, how much you’ve used your bullpen in the past few games, how many more games you have to play this week, how much you’ve used the pitcher this season, and how soon you need him to pitch again). But the hitter knows all this stuff, too, and he’s trying to figure out what pitch he’s going to be thrown. So the guessing game begins. Fastball? Cut fastball? Curveball? Slider? Changeup? Splitter? Inside? Outside? On the plate? Off the plate? High? Low? On the hands? Rising? Sinking? In or out of the strike zone? For a great book on baseball strategy, I’d suggest Keith Hernandez’s Pure Baseball. And for the record, I played (American) football and baseball in college, and the World Cup is still my favorite sporting event. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-u-strategy-u-in-running-or-golf/158967/22 "2003-03-04T19:55:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace309 \* > \*\*I had this argument many times when I was in high school. I was, you see, a wrestler, whereas my girlfriend was a swimmer. I still maintain that swimming - sprints, at any rate - is entirely form-oriented and has no strategy involved \*\* Well I’m sure not the worlds best swimmer but… You can draft in swimming so you could say that is a strategy. However, I would say that in any sprint distance in swimming, running is the same as a fast brake in basketball or hockey etc there is little strategy except grab the ball/puck and go. Longer distances are much different. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-u-strategy-u-in-running-or-golf/158967/23 "2003-03-04T20:45:02Z")
Regarding baseball, are these things really strategy, or tactics? Strategy involves some sort of plan, what planning is going on with deciding on a pitch? Now, if you want to suggest that a pitcher might have a series of pitches in mind to ‘set up’ the batter, I might be more agreeable. Looking at your individual situation and deciding upon the most effective course of action is really tactical in nature, even if there are a million variables to consider. ---
**Author:** ![djbdjb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@djbdjb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/djbdjb)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-u-strategy-u-in-running-or-golf/158967/24 "2003-03-04T20:52:25Z")
Ok, I apologize for blasting Soccer. The high-level soccer players of the world are very skilled at what they do. To see a bicycle kick is to be amazed. I do count soccer as a strategic sport, since the actions of your opponent have an effect on what you should do. Soccer is a sport that I want to like, I just think it has flaws when compared to other North American sports. Like baseball, it is too easy for one side (here the defense) to control the ball and thus scoring. Thus, I think you see a lot of games where one side scores a goal and then tries to do nothing for the rest of the game; sort of like U.S. basketball before the advent of the shot clock. Another irritation is the low scores due to the difficulty of making a goal. I don’t think this is just an American need for non-stop excitement, it is just realizing that the purpose of the game is not just dribbling with the ball, nor dribbling with a ball while an opponent tries to tackle, it is making goals. The Aztecs and other meso-American peoples played a game where the object was to hit a small rubber ball through a a ring mounted in a wall. The center hole of the ring was small, and the ring was oriented horizontally, not like a basketball hoop. You could not touch the ball with your hands. It would take several days to score a point and end the game. It probably took a lot of skill to finally score, but why make it so hard? Also, if you look at the purpose of a game as trying to establish who is the better team (on that day), it is better to have large scores than small. A score of 17 outcomes to 13 is more significant in statistical terms than 1-0, not to mention nil-nil and 4-3 on penaties. Jeez, why not just flip a coin? I’ll get back to comments on Golf and running in another message. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-u-strategy-u-in-running-or-golf/158967/25 "2003-03-05T08:33:42Z")
I’m not quite sure why you separate running and bicycle racing. You can draft off of the lead in each case, and there are various psychological games (as others have mentioned) to be played. What makes bicycling so different? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-no-u-strategy-u-in-running-or-golf/158967.md?page=1)