# There is something out there **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 16, 2024, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889 "2024-10-16T22:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/21 "2024-10-17T12:42:20Z")
Good post. I was really thinking about the cougar and coyotes, especially the latter because we have problems with them even in the Chicagoland suburbs. Even a 12/76 OpalMagnum with a 43,0 g / 666 grs slug would only enrage a bear unless you were lucky enough to hit him directly in the heart. Perhaps offering up my dog as a meal sacrifice would work better? LOL ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/22 "2024-10-17T12:49:36Z")
I don’t have to outrun the bear; I only have to … Perhaps you can carry an elderly Pekinese as a sacrificial decoy along with walking your actual dog? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/23 "2024-10-17T13:14:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Then, for no reason I could ever discern, my cat looked past me (like focusing on something behind me) and flattened her ears and hissed. I had done nothing to the cat. She was out of arm’s reach and I hadn’t addressed her or anything. She was just lying there and snoozing like any cat and then…that. > > I immediately felt a rise of panic. This is what Jonesy did in the movie Alien when he saw the alien. I very nervously turned to look behind me, afraid of what might be there and…nothing. Nothing at all. I looked back at the cat and she was still in her spot nonchalantly cleaning herself. According to Scottish folklore, your cat was seeing a ghost or something otherworldly. If you had got behind her and looked over her head in the same direction, with your eyes at the level of her ears, you too would have seen what she saw. But you have to move quickly, as ghosts get scared by hissing cats. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/24 "2024-10-17T13:17:47Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I would trust the instincts of the dog that likes to chase moose but, now, is scared to go outside. I recommend carrying a 12 gauge shotgun with a military style stock so it is compact and easy to handle when engaging close targets. If you hit any part of the attacking animal like even one leg, you’ll blow it off. That will at least drive him off. In short, no gun. It’s tempting, but there are better options. In a panic situation even with a shotgun you may just wound the animal and then you have to chase it down through very steep terrain and lots of trees and fallen timber. And they are not encroaching on me. It’s the other way around. We are encroaching on them. Live and let live. And My dogs have not been outside when a firearm is fired. I don’t know what the heck they would do. Possibly scatter. And now I have to chase down a wounded animal and do the correct thing. > [@Chefguy](#): > > An air horn or a personal alarm (a shrieker) is a far better choice. My wife bought some air horns this summer. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/25 "2024-10-17T13:25:28Z")
Coyotes and foxes moved in shortly after we came here, followed by a rapid decline in the feral cat population. Fishers moved in a few years ago, not large predators but quite noisy at times. Now there are bobcats in the area too. Amazing to me that the deer and wild turkey population remains high. A couple of neighborhood cats have gone missing recently. Elsewhere my brother lives in SE PA, only about 20 miles from Philadelphia. They have to watch out for bears following the power lines down from the mountains. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/26 "2024-10-17T17:18:01Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > This recent thread explores bear management while hiking in some detail: Beat ya too it in post # 6. But again, as in thread, I don’t think firearms are in any way a good idea for a bear, or even a cougar unless enipla is a far better shot than I have ever been or likely ever will be, especially in a tense circumstance. And carrying anything heavy enough for those two will very quickly become a chore, to the point that again, I don’t think anyone would bother. What’s worrying me more was the report on 4 (!) coyotes surrounding the OP’s spouse. That seems unusual in my (limited) experience, and apparently did to @enipla and wife as well. Especially if they’re comfortable enough to confront people. If anything like _that_ happened again, I’d consider a pistol for that specific scenario. I know enipla was talking about other reasons in a different thread to consider moving out of the high country, but this is certainly a valid additional reason! ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/27 "2024-10-17T17:23:04Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > (I seldom spot one on a game camera, further away from the house). @enipla : do you use, or could you use, trail cams near/on/around your property?? Trust but verify 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/28 "2024-10-17T17:35:46Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > An air horn or a personal alarm (a shrieker) is a far better choice. There is a scene (from a movies or series I cannot remember, perhaps Better Call Saul) where a couple of nasty guys storm into a store. One clerk is hiding behind a counter. As the last bad guy walks past him the clerk blasts his air horn right at him. Without breaking stride or even glancing at the clerk the bad guy levels his shotgun and blows the clerk away. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/29 "2024-10-17T18:38:44Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > But again, as in thread, I don’t think firearms are in any way a good idea for a bear, or even a cougar unless enipla is a far better shot than I have ever been or likely ever will be, especially in a tense circumstance. Under controlled circumstances, I’m reasonably good with a firearm. I’ve been target shooting since I was 11 years old or so. In a HOLY SHIT situation, I donno. > [@ParallelLines](#): > > And carrying anything heavy enough for those two will very quickly become a chore, to the point that again, I don’t think anyone would bother. Yeah, for those situations, it would be my .357. Carrying that around would be a pain. I did, just as an experiment carry an unloaded Colt 1911 Officers model around all day at home (I work from home, the officers model is a bit smaller than your standard 1911). It wasn’t too bad, but still a pain. I’m not gonna carry around a rifle or shotgun. The 4 coyotes are a concern. Being outnumbered. We hear them howling a couple of times a year. My wife had never shot a gun, but about 10 years ago, thought maaaybee, she would like a pistol of her own at the house (the .357 and the .45 are way to much for her). I took her target shooting with a single shot bolt action .22. It’s not as easy as she thought it would be so we gave up on that. I’m going off subject (but hey it’s my thread), back in college she went camping with some friends. One guy had a .44 mag. They offered my wife the chance to shoot it and stressed again and again how hard it would kick. "OK, careful, careful, It’s going to really kick. And then finally. _CLICK_ . It was unloaded. I guess a ‘joke’ on her. So that was her first ‘introduction’ to guns. People lying to her. > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > @enipla : do you use, or could you use, trail cams near/on/around your property?? > > Trust but verify 😉 I’ve used them for my mothers house when she passed and it was empty for a bit. They work reasonably well. I can’t see doing that in this situation. The ‘trail’ is either a gravel road that is rarely traveled, or the National Forest. Hard to cover that. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/30 "2024-10-17T18:54:53Z")
Well, once again we’re on the same wavelength about pistols against larger predators, but we both worry about the large number of coyotes. Seriously though, a coyote is not nearly as tenacious a target as the others, so perhaps something lightweight to both carry and shoot? While I’m a 9mm guy, even a .380 with modern loads should be fine for coyote, and there are plenty of lightweight but comfortable platforms for it. As a dissuasion tool, even a .22 LR revolver with snake shot would work, and I can’t think of anything easier to shoot. And at sub-$200 to buy for a Ruger as an example, even if she doesn’t choose to carry it, it’ll be a cheap and fun plinking pistol. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/31 "2024-10-17T19:25:57Z")
I’ve shot .380s and .38 spl. Plenty for dog sized creatures. I’ve got a Ruger mk II bull barrel. Great target pistol. Things are going to have to get really ugly before I consider walking around with a gun though. Bear spray would be better on coyotes anyway. We may all have a bad day, but I think they would get the message and split. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/32 "2024-10-17T19:27:46Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Yeah, for those situations, it would be my .357. A .357 would have little affect on a large bear unless you hit a vital organ. As mentioned upthread, a normal person who is familiar with guns and who can hit a stationary target is not going to be the same person when confronted with a few hundred pounds of fury moving at top speed. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/33 "2024-10-17T19:29:58Z")
I don’t like idea of untrained people carrying pistols anywhere me, my family and friends or my dog might be. Not the same as someone actually trained in use and practices at the range. So for the dangerous creatures where a pistol might be useful do you think a starter’s pistol or one of those really load cap guns would be at all effective? Any better than an air horn? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/34 "2024-10-17T19:33:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > So for the dangerous creatures where a pistol might be useful do you think a starter’s pistol or one of those really load cap guns would be at all effective? Any better than an air horn? I’ve been weapons trained by both the military and the police, qualified expert on quite a few different weapons. I’d still prefer an air horn or other noise maker. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/35 "2024-10-17T19:34:33Z")
The ones around here are about 200-300 lbs. Plenty big but certainly not what you saw in Alaska Chefguy. I’m going to stick with bear spray. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/36 "2024-10-17T19:49:37Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t like idea of untrained people carrying pistols anywhere me, my family and friends or my dog might be. Not the same as someone actually trained in use and practices at the range. > > So for the dangerous creatures where a pistol might be useful do you think a starter’s pistol or one of those really load cap guns would be at all effective? Any better than an air horn? You concern is fair, but I knew @enipla’s level of general competency from other threads, and presumed he’d make sure his spouse was similarly familiarized prior to any such steps. And, because I was worried about missed shots and penetration, I also suggested a .22LR revolver with snake shot, which is, as I mentioned, more about dissuasion than lethality. But for any additional dissuasion, you do risk more liability (as you mention) or simple careless issues. So yeah, noise and bear spray are probably the first, safest, line of defense. My concern is that if four coyotes are already inured enough to humans to confront a full grown, apparently healthy one, that’s already an elevated threat IMHO. ETA - I should NOT assume others know what [snake shot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_shot) is, so apologies and added a link. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/37 "2024-10-17T19:57:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I immediately felt a rise of panic. This is what Jonesy did in the movie Alien when he saw the alien. I very nervously turned to look behind me, afraid of what might be there and…nothing. Nothing at all. I looked back at the cat and she was still in her spot nonchalantly cleaning herself. I think this sort of thing is associated with interior decorating. “You bought a beige refrigerator? God gad, man, the appliances are electric white!” ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/38 "2024-10-17T20:01:58Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t like idea of untrained people carrying pistols anywhere me, my family and friends or my dog might be. Not the same as someone actually trained in use and practices at the range. I agree. While it’s rare, some looky loo does drive up our road and may want to ask me a question or two. I don’t have a CCW so it’s gonna be right there in the open, on my hip. I don’t want to scare anyone. When you are handling a gun (cleaning), or have one on your focus must change. You are now the deadly weapon. I was on a jury once when a police officer was handling piece of evidence. A weapon. The moron painted the whole room with it while he was talking about it. It’s always loaded you idiot. Do not point it at anything you do not want to shoot. When in the jury room, the bailiff just set the rifle on the table pointing at someone’s chest. I gently picked it up and asked if anyone wanted to look at it. Nobody did. I stood it up in a corner. So called trained people like police officers and court staff handling evidence can do it in a very improper manner. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/39 "2024-10-17T20:06:52Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > a normal person who is familiar with guns and who can hit a stationary target is not going to be the same person when confronted with a few hundred pounds of fury moving at top speed. I understand. Is the point that one will miss a head shot, or a bear cannot be killed by a large caliber head shot? I recall that the guys who took the bear that killed Timotnshy Treadwell had two large handguns and a 12 gage. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/40 "2024-10-17T20:13:55Z")
Colorado? I just got back from a road trip there and judging from the postcard and t-shirt shops, your state is infested with sasquatch. I’m with your dog; just avoid them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889.md?page=3)