# There is something out there **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 16, 2024, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889 "2024-10-16T22:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/41 "2024-10-17T20:19:00Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > [@Chefguy](#): > > > > a normal person who is familiar with guns and who can hit a stationary target is not going to be the same person when confronted with a few hundred pounds of fury moving at top speed. > > I understand. Is the point that one will miss a head shot, or a bear cannot be killed by a large caliber head shot? Back to the linked prior thread, most people are going to be pretty panicked in such a confrontation, especially at the sort of short range where any _pistol_ (emphasis) is going to be accurate. And a pistol is a lousy weapon for anything big and tough, so only pinpoint accuracy is likely to be _immediately_ lethal, otherwise you get a “Bear killed Colorado Man, died of wounds later” scenario at best. So if you want a more dependable lethality, especially for center of mass hits, you want something with substantial punch, such as shotgun slugs, or a .45-70 lever action rifle, or similar. Big, heavy, slow(ish) so it’s not a through-and-through small diameter shot. But anything like that is a PITA to carry, and if you’re at short range anyway, NOT likely to do much good. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/42 "2024-10-17T20:19:09Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > My concern is that if four coyotes are already inured enough to humans to confront a full grown, apparently healthy one, that’s already an elevated threat IMHO. This was on a well used hiking trail in a much more cityfied location then we are. My wife and I think they where after our dogs. Thankfully, while we hear the coyotes howling up here. We rarely see them. Moose are all around. They eat the ‘grass’ in our yard. It’s rather nice. My first encounter with a bear was finding one in the back of my pick-up truck. That was 33 years ago when I moved up here. Ummm… Hello? ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/43 "2024-10-17T20:22:49Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > This was on a well used hiking trail in a much more cityfied location then we are. My wife and I think they where after our dogs. Well, then, consider my coyote-based concerns mitigated! ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/44 "2024-10-17T20:28:54Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > So if you want a more dependable lethality, especially for center of mass hits, you want something with substantial punch, such as shotgun slugs, or a .45-70 lever action rifle, or similar. Big, heavy, slow(ish) so it’s not a through-and-through small diameter shot. I’ve got a 336 Marlin chambered in .356. Not 30-30. the .356 Winchester is pretty rare. It’s a cannon. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/45 "2024-10-17T20:43:49Z")
LOL, agreed! I have a lot of miscellaneous firearms I’ve inherited from my FiL, with more to come, as well as a few I purchased for target shooting. But at 30-06 rifle, or a 12g shotgun are the heaviest I own. Then again, I don’t hunt, hike, or otherwise bring myself out where anything would really be needed. Worst I’ve seen in town was deer, snakes (quite a few rattlers), raccoons, and (if I include the wife and MiL) black bears at their work/home respectively. And since I live in town, that’s what a call to animal services for, unless it’s trying to break in my door (thankfully all my pets are inside only)! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/46 "2024-10-17T21:29:44Z")
Thankfully, the coyotes that periodically make their presence known in our area have (to this point) always been heard and not seen. > [@enipla](#): > > I was on a jury once when a police officer was handling piece of evidence. A weapon. The moron painted the whole room with it while he was talking about it. It’s always loaded you idiot. Do not point it at anything you do not want to shoot. I’m reminded of an incident that took place when I lived in the Quad Cities. A fellow reporter working for one of the Illinois-side daily newspapers did a feature on a police competition shooting squad. He thought it would make a neat photo to have the squad lined up across the room facing him, in firing position. As he was taking the picture, one cop pulled the trigger on his weapon (for realism?). It turned out there was a live round in the chamber. The bullet missed the reporter/photographer by apparent inches. Guess the guy wasn’t all that good a shot. It did make for a very effective photo, which ran on the front page. Oddly, the officer who hadn’t properly checked his gun and fired the live round, had a slight smirk on his face. 😳 ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/47 "2024-10-17T21:34:20Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > I have a lot of miscellaneous firearms I’ve inherited from my FiL, with more to come, as well as a few I purchased for target shooting. Yeah, weird. I own twelve firearms. Most of them are from my Dad. The only gun I have bought is a target shooting air rifle. Very expensive, spot on and quiet. I like target shooting. It’s not Olympic match quality, but wow. I donno. I don’t really want to turn this into a gun thread. We have all been there. My Wife walked the dogs this morning. Into national forest (White River, our property backs up to it) . First light. She wears an orange coat an a yellow back pack. Dogs had no problems. When I moved up here my dad told me not to worry about 4 legged animals. Worry about 2 legged animals. Yes, and… sadly yes. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/48 "2024-10-17T21:40:12Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I understand. Is the point that one will miss a head shot, or a bear cannot be killed by a large caliber head shot? I recall that the guys who took the bear that killed Timotnshy Treadwell had two large handguns and a 12 gage. The chances of a missed head shot are very high, as it’s a small target. A large caliber handgun or rifle will take down a grizzly. . .sometimes. But first you have to hit it, which is not at all guaranteed when the target is moving at 30 mph. The bear that killed Treadwell was malnourished. In addition, the people who flew in to find Treadwell spotted the gut pile and the bear from the air, so were well-prepared to defend themselves. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/49 "2024-10-17T21:40:48Z")
More than fair. Thinking ahead, I pulled up a guide to what you can and cannot do to protect property (including pets) and self here in Colorado: > **[Handling Nuisance Wildlife Conflicts](https://cpw.state.co.us/nuisance-wildlife)** > > If wildlife is causing damage to crops, real or personal property, or livestock - landowners (or any employee or agent of the Note on three in-thread mentioned critters: > ### Coyotes > > Without a permit may hunt, trap, or take. The pelts or hides may be transferred, possessed, traded, bartered, or sold by any person who holds an appropriate small game or furbearer license. > > ### Mountain Lions > > CAN NOT be destroyed when they are causing damage to personal property, including pets. > CAN be killed when it is NECESSARY to prevent them from inflicting death, damage or injury to livestock, human life, real property, or a motor vehicle. > Any wildlife killed shall remain the property of the state, and such killing shall be reported to CPW within five days. > > ### Black Bears > > CAN NOT be destroyed when they are causing damage to personal property, including pets. > CAN be killed when it is NECESSARY to prevent them from inflicting death, damage or injury to livestock, human life, real property, or a motor vehicle. > Any wildlife killed shall remain the property of the state, and such killing shall be reported to CPW within five days. So outside a direct threat to self, or your real property/car, we’re absolutely back to loud noises, bear spray, and other non-lethals for cougars and bears anyway. But no one loves the poor coyotes! ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/50 "2024-10-17T21:44:16Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > The ones around here are about 200-300 lbs. Plenty big but certainly not what you saw in Alaska Chefguy. Certainly, although black bears are common in Alaska. They’re also much shyer than brownies and more likely to run than charge. I would still use a horn or alarm. A spray needs to reach the bear. A horn can be pointed anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/51 "2024-10-17T22:10:33Z")
I wasn’t pointing at anyone in this thread, I know some of you guys know what you are doing. But for others reading this thread I think it’s important to note if noise making is effective and a lot safer for others in the vicinity. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/52 "2024-10-17T22:10:35Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > moose … cougars …coyotes … bear … wolves … and this comes from a culture that is afraid to travel to Australia where by meme everything is trying to kill you and risking getting bitten by a spider? Don’t you all open carry blunderbusses or summat over there? Life, liberty and the pursuit of the Constitution? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/53 "2024-10-17T22:14:27Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > The bear that killed Treadwell was malnourished I thought they were bulking up for the Winter. Do I have that backwards, they had come out of hibernation and were hungry? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/54 "2024-10-17T23:12:50Z")
I would have to put forth considerable effort to come up with anything that matters _less_ to this thread (\), but … > The large male bear killed near the campsite with human remains in its gastrointestinal tract was estimated to be 28 years old, and appeared to be in reasonable condition for an old bear with no obvious signs of injury, abundant mesenteric fat, 4 cm rump fat, worn teeth with broken canines. [**SOURCE – 25pp PDF**](https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/foia/upload/03-109_KATM_Treadwell_fatality_REDACTED.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/55 "2024-10-17T23:20:44Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I thought they were bulking up for the Winter. Do I have that backwards, they had come out of hibernation and were hungry? My understanding is that nearly all the bears had left that area to den up. This particular animal was still in the area looking for food. Treadwell had also left the area, but decided to go back for unknown reasons, along with his girlfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/56 "2024-10-18T00:01:34Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > My Wife got surrounded by 4 of them this spring. She managed to scare them away (she’s a former animal control officer, has training is this stuff but 4 of them? She got lucky, she knows it). I would like to know more about this. What did she do? And how much did her training help in that situation? Sounds terrifying. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/57 "2024-10-18T00:21:41Z")
Cougar season in Oregon is open year round, every day. Jan 1st to Dec 31st. You need a hunting licence and a tag, tag is about $15. Most hunters buy the tag just in case when they are hunting deer or elk. There are a LOT of cougars here, but they are mostly shy and not often seen. I can only tell when they visit me by the scat (shit) they leave. [Hunting cougar in Oregon | Oregon Department of Fish & Wildlife](https://myodfw.com/articles/hunting-cougar-oregon) ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/58 "2024-10-18T00:23:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Then, for no reason I could ever discern, my cat looked past me (like focusing on something behind me) and flattened her ears and hissed People never like my explanation for this behavior from cats. They’re hearing bugs in the walls. Oddly, people would rather believe it’s because of ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/59 "2024-10-18T02:50:50Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > They’re hearing bugs in the walls. While not impossible, where I lived at the time had no bugs or vermin. At all (except very rarely a spider or fly would get in). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889/60 "2024-10-18T04:24:03Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > ETA: Anecdote - Some years ago I was home alone watching TV around 11p at night. All was normal, all was fine. Then, for no reason I could ever discern, my cat looked past me (like focusing on something behind me) and flattened her ears and hissed. I had done nothing to the cat. She was out of arm’s reach and I hadn’t addressed her or anything. She was just lying there and snoozing like any cat and then…that. > > I immediately felt a rise of panic. This is what Jonesy did in the movie Alien when he saw the alien. I very nervously turned to look behind me, afraid of what might be there and…nothing. Nothing at all. I looked back at the cat and she was still in her spot nonchalantly cleaning herself. > > Never did figure what that was about. She never did that again. Freaked me out a bit though when it happened. It might have been an insect; cat vision is much better at motion tracking than human vision, and they can often see small flying insects that humans have trouble noticing. That’s a common reason for cats staring at something “invisible”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-is-something-out-there/1008889.md?page=4)