# There might just be a reason that Lissener gets repeated pittings. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278 "2009-06-10T00:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/61 "2009-06-12T19:32:44Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > I disagree - I think Jennifer Aniston flows better, regardless of language. There are plenty of foreign names that sound just fine and shouldn’t change - Goran Bregovic, Utada Hikaru, etc. - but in some cases I think it makes sense to change. For example, how many people can spell Aniston’s real name without looking it up? Anyways, I did concede that there is some overlap and your point is valid, but I still say badu is pandering of the worst kind. You know who we should get in here to settle this? **lissener**. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/62 "2009-06-12T19:49:41Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > I disagree - I think Jennifer Aniston flows better, regardless of language. There are plenty of foreign names that sound just fine and shouldn’t change - Goran Bregovic, Utada Hikaru, etc. And these aesthetic justifications are (1) entirely based on your personal ethnic baggage and (2) are put into effect for purely marketing reasons. Why else is it that entertainers are the most likely kind of people to adopt “more aesthetic” names? Marketing. > [@](#): > > but in some cases I think it makes sense to change. For example, how many people can spell Aniston’s real name without looking it up? This is a circular argument. People are more familiar with common names. There’s nothing instinctive in an Anglo society about the spelling of the name _Sean_ but enough Irish-Americans avoided changing until we became accustomed to it and now we don’t wonder about the spelling. If fewer people named Anastassakis changed their names to Aniston, we would become similarly accustomed to it. And why focus just on Aniston? What about all the other entertainers who change their names? To my ears, the name Frederick Austerlitz is quite aesthetically pleasing, but he changed his name anyway. > [@](#): > > Anyways, I did concede that there is some overlap and your point is valid, but I still say badu is pandering of the worst kind. And I suspect that your ranking of Badu as “the worst kind” compared to the others is just based on your personal cultural biases. Pandering to a “we like African cultural references” market is exactly the same level of pandering as pandering to a “we don’t like strange foreign stuff that we can’t spell or pronounce” market. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/63 "2009-06-12T20:04:28Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > And I suspect that your ranking of Badu as “the worst kind” compared to the others is just based on your personal cultural biases. Pandering to a “we like African cultural references” market is exactly the same level of pandering as pandering to a “we don’t like strange foreign stuff that we can’t spell or pronounce” market. The difference is the honesty about the change. The latter makes sense to me - they are artists trying to establish themselves in a foreign market, so they adopt a name that makes them more marketable to that market, and if you asked them I’m sure they would be honest about that fact. I’m willing to bet if you asked Badu about her name change you would get a bunch of crapola about her birth name being her slave name and wanting to get in touch with her african roots and such (wikipedia backs me up on this point). If she were being honest about it - “I changed my name and wore african garb because dippy college girls think its cool and will buy my albums” I would have less of a problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/64 "2009-06-12T20:10:20Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > I’m willing to bet if you asked Badu about her name change you would get a bunch of crapola about her birth name being her slave name and wanting to get in touch with her african roots and such (wikipedia backs me up on this point). On what basis do you assume it’s crapola? It isn’t exactly unheard of for African-Americans who aren’t entertainers to change their run-of-the-mill Anglo names or avoid giving their children such names. In fact, it has been commented on quite frequently how African-Americans who use common names often change the spelling and at least one reason is to differentiate themselves from the majority/white/Anglo culture. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/65 "2009-06-12T20:13:41Z")
On the basis that I think it is crapola. I think it was crapola when Lew Alcindor did it, I think it is crapola if anyone does it. Changing your name does not a revolution make. Martin Luther King never needed to change his name to effect social change - he had more important things to do. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/66 "2009-06-12T20:28:55Z")
My favorite is Colts DB Demond Sanders, who goes by “Bob”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/67 "2009-06-12T20:33:07Z")
Have any significant number of people who have changed their names in this fashion claimed that their name changes are equivalent to the entire body of accomplishments of Martin Luther King? Or is it just your personal opinion that a name change requires that level of justification? Well, not if you’re changing your name _to_ an “aesthetically pleasing” Wasp name for undisguised marketing reasons, I guess. I get it now. It’s crapola if you do it to show your personal affiliation with a non-Wasp culture and you assert something besides pure commercial motive. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/68 "2009-06-12T20:44:12Z")
Your obsession with this wasp thing is strange because I couldn’t care less about what culture you are affiliating with as long as there is honesty behind it. If I want to make it big in Nambia and change my name to one more appealing to the local crowd there, I’m not saying I like it but at least it is honest. I don’t see anything honest about badu, it just looks like naked pandering to me pretending to have some higher purpose. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/69 "2009-06-12T20:49:08Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > Really? I can’t stand Tori, but I don’t think I would call her a sellout. See, to me, in music, “sellout” means “I don’t like that artist.” It has no other meaning; I’m sure others claim it does, but it almost never does. They just mean “I don’t like them.” Any musician you hear on the radio is selling their music; all of us who’re paid for our work are sellouts one way or another, so to mean it’s either that the music is good or it’s not, and nothing else matters. Unless the artist in question has actually personally betrayed me, why do I care how much the song was written with commercial success in mind? The Beatles were obsessively money-driven; they were enthusiastic sellouts. Did they suck? I just don’t like Tori Amos, so as far as it matters to me, lissener and I agree. All of this is IMHO; if anyone disagrees, fair enough. I don’t pretend to have all the answers. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/70 "2009-06-12T20:50:00Z")
Perhaps consider that “not keeping my slave name” just might be a sincere motivation for some number of people and not just crapola. Muhammad Ali actually endured a significant blow to his popularity when he changed his name. And I doubt you have tangible evidence that Badu’s name change is any less sincere than his. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/71 "2009-06-12T20:52:15Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Perhaps consider that “not keeping my \*\*slave name” . \*\* How OLD is this singer ?🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/72 "2009-06-12T20:54:58Z")
Incidentally… > [@HoboStew](#): > > I disagree - I think Jennifer Aniston flows better, regardless of language. There’s also the fact that Jennifer Aniston is, in fact, the woman’s real name. Her father had changed his surname before she was born. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/73 "2009-06-12T20:58:21Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > And why focus just on Aniston? Is there proof that she even changed her name? Do people who anglicize their names (as her father did) regularly pass their ‘ethnic’ ones down to their offspring? I’ve heard several variations of her ‘real’ name, so methinks this has a hint of urban legend. Not that there aren’t plenty of real cases (_cough_ Natalie Herschlag). Anyway, while this all seems silly, there’s certainly a time and place for discussing masculinity in rock, the use of the words ‘pussy’ and ‘wuss(y)’, and why women’s genitals could ever be confused with something weak. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/74 "2009-06-12T21:05:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > See, to me, in music, “sellout” means “I don’t like that artist.” It has no other meaning; I’m sure others claim it does, but it almost never does. They just mean “I don’t like them.” To me, it is more specific than “I don’t like that artist.” I don’t like Merzbow, but I would never claim he was a sellout. To me sellout means “I am not even going to try and create something that gives me any sort of internal satisfaction. I am going to reverse engineer popular trends and attempt to cash in on that by any means necessary.” Now I don’t necessarily begrudge anyone for selling out per se - everyone’s a whore to one degree or another unless they inherited fortunes or won the lottery or something. But there are degrees, and there is, in my mind, a line that you cross where you basically say “fuck it, I’m just out for money” as opposed to “I’m out for money, but I would like to do it more or less on my terms.” I have more respect for people in the latter category. [QUOTE=ascenray] Perhaps consider that “not keeping my slave name” just might be a sincere motivation for some number of people and not just crapola. [/QUOTE] I’ve certainly considered it. In her case, I have decided that she is full of it. Obviously YMMV and I don’t know shit, its just my opinion. Muhammad Ali one of the few people who I DON’T think was crapola for changing his name. He put his money where his mouth was - openly protesting US policy, Vietnam, etc and suffering major personal and professional consequences as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/75 "2009-06-12T21:21:48Z")
> [@HoboStew](#): > > Jennifer Aniston just SOUNDS better than Yannis Anastassakis I don’t know - I like that assakis in there. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/76 "2009-06-12T21:31:22Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Is there proof that she even changed her name? Do people who anglicize their names (as her father did) regularly pass their ‘ethnic’ ones down to their offspring? I’ve heard several variations of her ‘real’ name, so methinks this has a hint of urban legend. Not that there aren’t plenty of real cases (_cough_ Natalie Herschlag). That’s entirely possible. I’m no expert on the personal life of Jennifer Aniston. So strike her name from the list. Even better, that takes off the table the issue of aesthetics. Hell, Stan Lee admits in interviews that he changed his name legally solely so he could get a credit card and he wishes that he had kept the name Stanley Lieber. Short of horse’s mouth evidence like that, why not give Badu the benefit of the doubt? > [@HoboStew](#): > > Muhammad Ali one of the few people who I DON’T think was crapola for changing his name. He put his money where his mouth was - openly protesting US policy, Vietnam, etc and suffering major personal and professional consequences as a result. Yeah, he did. But if he could have changed his name without suffering, indeed, if he could have changed his name and benefited from it, would that have made his choice insincere? > [@](#): > > Obviously YMMV and I don’t know shit, its just my opinion. I don’t know shit either. So I choose not to have an opinion on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/77 "2009-06-12T21:39:31Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Yeah, he did. But if he could have changed his name without suffering, indeed, if he could have changed his name and benefited from it, would that have made his choice insincere? If all he did was change his name without doing all the other stuff to back it up then yes, I would have felt he was just paying lip service and it would have made his choice insincere in my mind. So let me get this straight - you’ve NEVER formed an opinion on anyone when you didn’t 100% unequivocal statements directly from the party involved? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/78 "2009-06-12T22:19:44Z")
**Lissener** to music and media is sorta like **Zenster** was to food and cooking. Lots of knowledge, granted, but seems to come across as sort of an asshole at times about it. Difference is (so far) **Zenster** was eventually banned for being that way, so hopefully in this case **Lissener** will mellow out a little in time. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/79 "2009-06-12T22:21:16Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > **Lissener** to music and media is sorta like **Zenster** was to food and cooking. > > Lots of knowledge, granted, but seems to come across as sort of an asshole at times about it. > > Difference is (so far) **Zenster** was eventually banned for being that way, so hopefully in this case **Lissener** will mellow out a little in time. Doesn’t **lissener** have several, at least one, suspensions to his name? Or warnings or something? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278/80 "2009-06-13T03:33:50Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > Doesn’t **lissener** have several, at least one, suspensions to his name? Or warnings or something? **lissener** is actually one of the very few to have been banned, and allowed back. This bewilders me. He is just like **collounsbury** in my mind; someone with vast and deep knowledge in his areas of expertise, yet someone who just cannot help being a vast and deep asshole about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-might-just-be-a-reason-that-lissener-gets-repeated-pittings/499278.md?page=5)