# There must be basic training for sailors, right? What's in it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 24, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011 "2012-12-24T14:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/41 "2012-12-27T01:29:20Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > I started boot camp in early '82, got to my first boat in late '83. Boot camp, BE&E (Basic Electricity and Electronics school), RM ‘A’ School, BESS (Basic Enlisted Submarine School), SETTs (Submarine Electronics Technical Training) and my ‘C’ school. > [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Let’s call it 1.5 years. How long was your commitment? That’s obviously a lot of training and I understand that sub certs take longer but what’s the shortest bootcamp to job time out there? About two weeks shy of 1.5 years, actually. A standard enlistment was four years. I went in under the RM ATF (Radioman Advanced Technical Field) program - signed for six years vice four, and volunteered for sub duty, in return for which I was guaranteed all those schools, was paid as an E3 starting the first day of boot camp, and was advanced to E4 immediately upon completion of ‘A’ school. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/42 "2012-12-27T01:39:24Z")
> [@jnglmassiv](#): > > Are there general purpose janitorial staff (searching for something with little training here..) like you’d have in an office institution? I mean, it’s hard to believe, I dunno, the barbers had more than a few weeks of school, right? > [@mlees](#): > > Negative! Every enlisted rate gets it’s turn cleaning the heads, waxing the decks, sweeping the ladderwells. > > “Sweepers sweepers, man your brooms. Give the ship a clean sweep-down, fore and aft. Clean all lower-decks, ladderwells, and passageways. Now sweepers.” > > (Even as a 2nd class Petty Officer, I was out there waxing the freaking deck.) As a submariner, I got to spend quite a few hours waxing decks (not to mention cleaning bilges) even as a First Class. Different divisions were assigned different areas of the boat to clean. We RMs cleaned Radio, of course, but we were also responsible for cleaning the lower-level passageway and 21-man berthing. (all my time on subs was spent on 688-class boats.) On my first boat, Radio also owned the port side of Main Condensate Bay (part of the Engine Room). Surface fleet barbers are Ship’s Servicemen; they also run the ship’s store and the laundry. According to [this](http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjob1/a/sh.htm), SH ‘A’ School is 26 days. (Submarine barbers are volunteers from the crew - I’ve seen torpedomen, A-gangers, nucs and others doing the job. My first boat actually sent a torpedoman to a civilian barber school in Honolulu, but he was the only one I knew who actually received formal training like that.) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/43 "2012-12-27T03:17:24Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > One thing I remember about USCG boot camp is one day they had us launch a lifeboat from the divots. Took us quite a while… Well, sure, but still, it must be nice just to be out on the golf course. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/divots?s=t](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/divots?s=t) [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/davits?s=t](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/davits?s=t) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/44 "2012-12-27T03:38:14Z")
Anchor management issues… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/45 "2012-12-27T03:48:59Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > We also had “work week”, where we were assigned to various chores around the base. Some were assigned to escort new recruits. Some were assigned to other, more pleasant, duties that allowed them to get some sleep. Most of us, though, were assigned to galley duty, where we washed dishes, mopped floors, and worked as cook’s assistants from about 4 a.m. until about 9 p.m. The point of the endeavor was to teach us how to remain functional under physical and mental stress, which is a desirable trait during deployment. This, by the way, was the longest week of my life. San Diego RTC, March-May 1980. As the company Yeoman I was spared the requirement to participate in Service Week. I still had plenty to occupy me during the days. I did just barely miss out on being given a marching party when I failed to get one of the guys to a dental appointment on time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/46 "2012-12-27T03:49:03Z")
> [@Mdcastleman](#): > > So people join the Navy that can’t swim? And how common is this? Two of the guys in my company showed up for training without knowing how to swim. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/47 "2012-12-27T06:37:43Z")
In the UK, naval recruits undergo an exercise called HAVOC, a 3 story sinking ship simulation. Apparently it is pretty stressful, along with wet and cold. Of course, less stressful than actually being on a sinking warship, but that is the point. Si ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/48 "2012-12-27T14:24:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > San Diego RTC, March-May 1980. > > As the company Yeoman I was spared the requirement to participate in Service Week. I still had plenty to occupy me during the days. > > I did just barely miss out on being given a marching party when I failed to get one of the guys to a dental appointment on time. Because of the volume of recruits passing through boot camp in 1967, our company was delayed by a week. So we had two weeks of service “week”. One week is bad enough, but the second week was pure hell, as the lack of sleep was turning us into zombies. One guy lost it on the chow line, where he had been dispensing butter pats the entire time. Someone refused butter and he started shouting “take the fucking butter! TAKE THE FUCKING BUTTER!!” and throwing the pats at people. He was taken off the line, and that night he lost it in the middle of the night, crying and shouting. He ended up being discharged. I remember falling asleep standing up at my station (salad dressing? salad dressing? salad dressing?) and the galley Chief coming up and screaming at me to WAKE THE FUCK UP, MAGGOT!! Good times. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/49 "2012-12-27T14:43:16Z")
Ah, the damage control simulator - basicly a large subdivided matel box kitted out internally like a ship. It has a number of inlets connected to water mains and these look like shell holes etc. They can turn on the water at these inlets during the course of the exercise, in addition the lights always go out, so you have to run emergency lighting, you also have run emergency electrical supplies to get various extractor pumps working - all the time being blasted with high pressure water from the broken firemain. Just to make it more interesting they also bash the outside of the metal box with hammers and stuff, it also tilts over whilst you are working to simlutatea listing ship. In practice is it surprisngly real, we smashed into the arse end of USS Dale, and this was the result, [http://www.ambuscade.org.uk/Amb\_Collision01-1.htm](http://www.ambuscade.org.uk/Amb_Collision01-1.htm) We were on our tea break at the time, around 10:10 am, up came the emergency announcement ‘Stand by for collision forward!Safegaur, safeguard, Stand by for collision forward!’ ‘Safegaurd’ is a term to mean ‘This is not an exercise this is for real’ We were a bit suprised due to us being miles away shore or port, surely there was nothing to hit - but we’d underestimated the skill of our navigation crew in finding an obstacle. Seconds later the ship suddenly tilted massively - it is amazing just how quickly you can get up on deck when you think you life depends on it - genuinely thought we were going to capsize but we soon rolled back again. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/50 "2012-12-27T14:54:11Z")
How was Goa? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/51 "2012-12-27T15:17:41Z")
Ah yes, Some of the crew took a few days off and went there, but we had to take it in turns. I was due to leave the ship anyway, but that had been scheduled to happen when we arrived in Australia, however we never made it due to the collision (or at least I had left by then) Trying to leave India through immigration without a passport stamp for arrival casued a certain amount of consternation to their burearocracy - application of excess unwanted currency seemed to help out though. When we got into the dockyard that was also something of a disaster. We were put into a dry dock that was absolutely enormous - probably intended for aircraft carriers ore somesuch, certainly not a little frigate. The result was that there was real concern we could topple over sideways since the supportin props from the dock wall were right out as far as they could go. We had a diver go down to ensure we came upon the keel blocks correctly whikst the water was pumped out. We came down right on his air lines, so that finished him. The dock was so large it had been divided in two, with a coffer dam half way up the length of it. At the furthest end of the dry dock a crane decided it would give way, having been stood for perhaps 70 years. It landed on a bunch of Indian labourers and killed around 20 or so of them. That one was a real Jonah trip, we also lost two helicopters in the Gulf too, one ditched and the other landed in Barhain on a mail run and couldn’t get up again. Thing is, we had borrowed the second one from another ship, they still want it back, which they can have if they get their fishing rods out! ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/52 "2012-12-27T16:12:13Z")
The site says: “The US Navy finished off what Ambuscade attempted to do on April 6, 2000, when USS DALE became the victim of a SINKEX in the Atlantic.” What’s a SINKEX? The Ambuscade looks remarkably like an attacking shark’s jaws from the back. Good idea for morale, like the Flying Tigers. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/53 "2012-12-27T16:50:46Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > The site says: > > “The US Navy finished off what Ambuscade attempted to do on April 6, 2000, when USS DALE became the victim of a SINKEX in the Atlantic.” > > What’s a SINKEX? > > The Ambuscade looks remarkably like an attacking shark’s jaws from the back. Good idea for morale, like the Flying Tigers. SINKEX - Using a ship as a target and blasting away at it until it sinks. The finest end a Naval ship can hope for! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/54 "2012-12-27T16:58:26Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Heh. My parents found my boot camp “yearbook” when they were packing up their house to move, and I’ve got it right here. Lots of memories of Recruit Training Center Orlando. > [@SCAdian](#): > > The Florida boot camp was near Orlando (as was nuclear power school). Not just near. It was actually _in_ Orlando - [about a mile east of downtown](http://www.cityoforlando.net/planning/ntc/ntchome.htm). Most of it is now a tony housing development called Baldwin Park. The local joke when the DoD decided to close the base was that it took the Navy thirty years to figure out that Orlando is an hour and a half from the sea. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/55 "2012-12-27T17:02:46Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > SINKEX - Using a ship as a target and blasting away at it until it sinks. The finest end a Naval ship can hope for! I don’t know, I kind of think the museum route is best. Like the New Jersey, Midway or Intrepid or much to my surprise when I first heard it, my old ship, the USS Ranger CV-61. Sadly as of October, the Ranger is again scheduled for scrapping. Still hoping some break comes in that. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/56 "2012-12-27T17:09:57Z")
How _does_ one ship crash into another in the deep and wide ocean? Flotillas, or even sub-sub shadowing, I can see. I mean, was one ship coming over for a mail toss or a battery jump? ETA: is “Jonah trip” Brit navy slang? ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/57 "2012-12-27T17:32:47Z")
According to the USS Dale Wikipedia page, the US and British fleet were conducting joint training exercises when the collision happened. Maybe someone got a bit too zealous. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/58 "2012-12-27T18:24:55Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > How _does_ one ship crash into another in the deep and wide ocean? > > Flotillas, or even sub-sub shadowing, I can see. > > I mean, was one ship coming over for a mail toss or a battery jump? > > ETA: is “Jonah trip” Brit navy slang? I had a friend who was on the [USS Evans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne%E2%80%93Evans_collision) when it was cut in half by the HMAS Melbourne in 1969. He survived, but the guy who traded watch with him didn’t. He claims he had dreams about the collision for weeks before it happened. After it was all done with, he changed his rating from Boiler Tech (a seagoing rating) to Utilitiesman (a Seabee rating) so he would never have to go aboard ship again. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/59 "2012-12-27T18:41:30Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Ah, the damage control simulator mrAru said that the DC Sim was looked upon as one of the funnest parts of training - he was very disappointed that the proposed stint at teaching at SubSchool fell through, that was one of the things he was to be doing. He always heard that the instructors had as much fun planning and running the simulator as the students inside. I was hoping to get a ‘family day’ in the simulator. I always liked family cruises, I tended to hide in Machinery with him instead of going around the sub and learning about things. > [@casdave](#): > > We were a bit suprised due to us being miles away shore or port, surely there was nothing to hit - but we’d underestimated the skill of our navigation crew in finding an obstacle. > . I believe the 1890s US Navy Officers manual says something about the enlisteds along the lines of 'They have a certain animal cunning but are not really intelligent and are not to be trusted" 😃 At least you saved the beer! I used to tour the foreign ships hitting Norfolk NAS occasionally, and I will admit that other than the Germans, the British sailors were amazingly friendly, I like the habit of a Ships Pub. Though the time the Soviet Fleet showed up it was fascinating to a Cold War baby to actually tour a Soviet destroyer, [the Olitchny.]([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/destroyer](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/destroyer) Otlichny) [ > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > The Ambuscade looks remarkably like an attacking shark’s jaws from the back. Good idea for morale, like the Flying Tigers. That thought occurred to me when I saw the picture. That was some serious damage. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The local joke when the DoD decided to close the base was that it took the Navy thirty years to figure out that Orlando is an hour and a half from the sea. Could be worse, there is a Navy Base [or was] outside Las Vegas. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > I don’t know, I kind of think the museum route is best. Like the New Jersey, Midway or Intrepid or much to my surprise when I first heard it, my old ship, the USS Ranger CV-61. Sadly as of October, the Ranger is again scheduled for scrapping. Still hoping some break comes in that. I don’t know, at least a museum ship gets maintained. About 5 years ago we toured an old [URL=“[http://www.ussalbacore.org/](http://www.ussalbacore.org/)”]pig boat]([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/destroyer](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/destroyer) Otlichny) up in Portsmouth NH, I pretty much cry when I see pictures of the Red Banner Fleet [rusting](http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/attachments/naval-warfare/13709d1236548469-what-will-russian-naval-fleet-look-like-2015-ship_submarine_rusted_k-159_lg.jpg) at the pier. That is not a good death for a naval vessel, enemy or not. > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > How _does_ one ship crash into another in the deep and wide ocean? Very carefully? I can understand a sub coming up under something, that is just plain sloppy but not unknown. I would guess that more than a few officers and senior enlisteds got into hot water ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/60 "2012-12-27T19:31:15Z")
‘Jonah’ is a term for someone who has loads of bad luck, everything screws up around them, hence a Jonah trip is a deployment where everything goes wrong. Something to do with biblical events I believe. How do you collide with something in the middle of deep water in bright sunlight and a flat calm sea? We were doing ‘Officer of the Watch’ ship handling exercises - OOW steering. We were meeting the Armilla patrol at the time, and steaming in a formation straight inline ahead. The last ship in the line makes it’s way to the front by zig-zagging up the line. This is a common enough training exercise to train junior officers, I’ve heard that trying to control the direction of a ship is similar to trying to steer a planet through space, any changes in speed and course take a long time to take effect. I guess we zagged instead of zigging, I don’t recall a steering gear failure though that is possible. Such a failure is classed as an emergency condition and would have been announced over the tannoy - steering gear is extremely reliable and when doing exercises, such as this, you close up the steering gear compartment with the emergency steering crew, just in case of a hydraulics failure - it can be operated manually but it is very slow indeed. I reckon that collision took away around 40 foot of our bows, straight into the beer store, fortunately the collision bulkhead held. Its a good job it was tea break time, as there would probably have been more folk around in the collion area. Once we’d stopped and were idle in the water, with beer cans floating around us, USS Dale sent her chopper over to see if anyone needed to be pulled out of the water, it hovered over our flight deck. Now our own helicopter was very much smaller so we were not familiar with the power of the downdraught of theirs. This downdraught clean lifted our Flight Deck Controller right off our helo pad, over the guardrails and right into the drink - he was wearing a set of my noise cancelling headphones which I had to repair. We were asked by the skipper of _Dale_ if we needed any more assistance, they might have been a bit offended when they were told, 'No, we think you’ve just about done enough f\*\*\*ing damage for one day!" [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011.md?page=4)