# There must be basic training for sailors, right? What's in it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 24, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011 "2012-12-24T14:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/61 "2012-12-27T20:06:40Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Could be worse, there is a Navy Base [or was] outside Las Vegas. There’s NAS Fallon. (Nevada) Were you thinking of that? That’s where the “Top Gun” school now resides. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/62 "2012-12-27T20:56:45Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > There’s NAS Fallon. (Nevada) > > Were you thinking of that? That’s where the “Top Gun” school now resides. Not sure offhand, mrAru was headed to Tahoe for a quick leave with his Dad and the Step monster in 84 and he ran into 3 or 4 guys who were headed to the base - they were sitting on duffles waiting for the shuttle when he walked past [traveling in uniform, those were the days!] IIRC he was between being warehoused at Orlando and headed to nuke school. [My first husband was lucky enough to get stuck in Key West while waiting for his spot in nuke school. Apparently master at arms in the chow hall in Orlando sucked.] ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/63 "2012-12-27T23:38:52Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Not sure offhand, mrAru was headed to Tahoe for a quick leave with his Dad and the Step monster in 84 and he ran into 3 or 4 guys who were headed to the base - they were sitting on duffles waiting for the shuttle when he walked past [traveling in uniform, those were the days!] IIRC he was between being warehoused at Orlando and headed to nuke school. [My first husband was lucky enough to get stuck in Key West while waiting for his spot in nuke school. Apparently master at arms in the chow hall in Orlando sucked.] Fallon is not that far from Tahoe on highway 50. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/64 "2012-12-27T23:59:52Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > …lThe last ship in the line makes it’s way to the front by zig-zagging up the line. This is a common enough training exercise to train junior officers, I’ve heard that trying to control the direction of a ship is similar to trying to steer a planet through space, any changes in speed and course take a long time to take effect. Jesus, how thin is the alleyway that the zig-zagger chutes through? Minimum normal distance during maneuvers like this is what? (BTW, when do “a bunch of ships” become a flotilla? Or is it just kind of a more impressive word for same? “Carrier group” I’ve heard of, which carries I believe a fairly discrete meaning.) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/65 "2012-12-28T00:28:48Z")
[I came across a pic](http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/webphoto/web_121116-N-WW409-533.jpg)recently of a pretty damn big fleet exercise, 26 US and Japanese ships and subs, including 4 carriers (3 of them little helicopter carriers, but still…). [Here’s another of the same fleet which I especially like,](http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/webphoto/web_121116-N-WW409-806.jpg) with the fleet doing kind of a drill team thing… with the outer columns doing simultaneous turns for some reason. It’s pretty hard to tell how far apart the ships in each column are, but it looks a little iffy for ships weaving among them. OTOH, it looks like there’s plenty of room between columns for a ship to slip between them, step on the gas and move up to the front. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/66 "2012-12-28T01:42:04Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > SINKEX - Using a ship as a target and blasting away at it until it sinks. The finest end a Naval ship can hope for! I kind of think the finest end would be going down with all guns blazing/missiles flying as she sinks a _much_ larger enemy combatant. BTW, I recently read this about the USS _Iwo Jima_: [USS Iwo Jima (LPH-2) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iwo_Jima_(LPH-2)#Potential_role_in_1982_Falklands_War) ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/67 "2012-12-28T01:45:51Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > with the outer columns doing simultaneous turns for some reason. Because it looks pretty… ---
**Author:** ![Curate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Curate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Curate)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/68 "2012-12-28T02:21:28Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Whats training for officers like. I went in in '85 as a staff officer so I can’t speak to the curriculum for line officers, but ours was two months in Newport, RI and involved pretty much everything that’s been mentioned. Because I was destined to spend part of my time serving with the Marines, we had to be able to pass the Marine Corps physical standards by the end of the course rather than simply the Navy one. My entire class was direct-commissioned, which meant that we were all Ensigns, LTJG’s or LT’s when we showed up, so we had the odd experience of being higher in rank than many of our instructors. Our PFT instructor was a Marine Gunnery Sergeant and since he couldn’t yell at us using the usual vocabulary he proved to be a master of sarcasm. Every morning when we ran PT he would make sure we circled the Chief’s quarters and made as much noise as possible. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/69 "2012-12-28T02:58:23Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > We also had to go through tear gas exposure, wherein you were ordered to strip off your gas mask and recite the General Orders. Nasty. This fun little activity is also used (or was) by the Army. In 1989, it consisted of an exercise whereby the troops were gathered into a shack with drill instructors that were in full chem gear stoking the CS-1 into a fury. We would all be wearing our MOPP gear and were instructed to do some pushups while in full chem gear to get us sweaty inside of it (which ironically makes the tear gas more “sticky” to your skin, a fact not lost on the DI’s), then we were told to unmask. We had to stand there holding our breath for a few seconds, then a DI opened a back door out of the place and we had to recite our name, rank and serial number before we were allowed to exit. I have to say as someone that happened to be near the end of the exiting order that they happily accepted “Drill Sergeant, Private snuffle-guffle-snot bubble, 091878743 something something dribble drool” as an answer to exit that foul place. The best part was outside right afterward. As it was winter in Fort Knox, there was a fire barrel we were told to form a moving ring around, and were told to flap our arms and recite “I am flapping my arms, drill sergeant!” over and over, while being told not to touch our snot-flowing mouths or noses. As it was explained to me, the CS gas is crystalline in nature and the “flapping” of our arms helped to shed it off of our uniforms. We were a snotty lot, but I never figured if what they said about it was true. That stuff is quite nasty. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/70 "2012-12-28T10:36:23Z")
> [@Curate](#): > > I went in in '85 as a staff officer so I can’t speak to the curriculum for line officers, but ours was two months in Newport, RI and involved pretty much everything that’s been mentioned. I thought the bit about caviar and gold toilets was a joke. Newport? That’s where the Rockefellers and the Vanderbilts used to rub elbows. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/71 "2012-12-28T20:00:11Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There are training and career paths for civilian sailors. I did a trip on a sail training vessel that taught very traditional seamanship skills; knots and ropework, navigation, emergency drills, and the like. There are specialized schools, as well. As you build up experience and pass certain tests, you can serve in more senior positions and on larger ships, although I’m not sure who administers those classifications. I can speak for the US Merchant Marine. The officers recieve their liciences from the US Coast Guard. There are a total of 6 Maritime Academys in the US. 5 run by different state college systems, one the National Maritime Academy at Kings Point. The training at the state matitime academys includes running the training ships on a cruze each year. Kings point midshipmen spend one year as an observer on merchant ships. I believe all programs now are 4 years (Cal Maritime was 3 years when I graduated.) At graduation time the 1st class will take and have to pass the USCG test for 3rd Assistane Engineer Steam and Diesel any hp or the 3rd Mate unlimited licience. To upgrade the licience from 3rd to 2nd you have to sail underarticles for 365 days (time reallly on a ship as a 3rd only counts). After passing the 2nds test and working 365 days as a 2nd you can take the 1st test. Then after working 365 days as a 1st you can take the Chief’s or the Master’s test. another note the test is a very through test and hard. I started my test Monday morningand each morning through the week at 8:00 AM and tested until about 4:00PM each day except Friday. I finished my ttest on Friday at 3:00 PM. It was 5 full days of testing. For an engineeer each level has two liciences, steam or diesel. For a mate there are different levels of tonnage. For the unlicienced crew there are defferent trainings provided through the union. The testing is at a lower level for the different certifications. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/72 "2012-12-28T20:03:56Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Whats training for officers like. Depends. There are defferent paths to become an officer. I would say the hardest is one of the service academys. There is also other military schools, ROTC, OCS after graduationg from college, Maritime academys. So each would be different. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/73 "2012-12-28T20:06:28Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > They have caviar for breakfast, then crap in a gold toilet and wipe their asses with an enlisted man. I thought everybody knew that! I resemble that. I lived in a hell hole for 3 years and the food we ate was beyound belief. One year I off loaded rotten eggs from the training lship to the mess deck. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/74 "2012-12-28T20:07:42Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I had a friend who was on the [USS Evans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne%E2%80%93Evans_collision) when it was cut in half by the HMAS Melbourne in 1969. He survived, but the guy who traded watch with him didn’t. He claims he had dreams about the collision for weeks before it happened. After it was all done with, he changed his rating from Boiler Tech (a seagoing rating) to Utilitiesman (a Seabee rating) so he would never have to go aboard ship again. One of the kids in the class behind me father was the skipper of the Evens ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/75 "2012-12-28T23:50:40Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > I can speak for the US Merchant Marine. The officers recieve their liciences from the US Coast Guard. > There are a total of 6 Maritime Academys in the US. 5 run by different state college systems, one the National Maritime Academy at Kings Point. The training at the state matitime academys includes running the training ships on a cruze each year. Kings point midshipmen spend one year as an observer on merchant ships. I believe all programs now are 4 years (Cal Maritime was 3 years when I graduated.) At graduation time the 1st class will take and have to pass the USCG test for 3rd Assistane Engineer Steam and Diesel any hp or the 3rd Mate unlimited licience. To upgrade the licience from 3rd to 2nd you have to sail underarticles for 365 days (time reallly on a ship as a 3rd only counts). After passing the 2nds test and working 365 days as a 2nd you can take the 1st test. Then after working 365 days as a 1st you can take the Chief’s or the Master’s test. > another note the test is a very through test and hard. I started my test Monday morningand each morning through the week at 8:00 AM and tested until about 4:00PM each day except Friday. I finished my ttest on Friday at 3:00 PM. It was 5 full days of testing. > > For an engineeer each level has two liciences, steam or diesel. For a mate there are different levels of tonnage. > > For the unlicienced crew there are defferent trainings provided through the union. The testing is at a lower level for the different certifications. From what I read, the captain on my training ship had the rarest license there is, Unlimited Master; Motor, Steam, and Sail. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/76 "2012-12-29T01:01:45Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > I can speak for the US Merchant Marine. The officers recieve their liciences from the US Coast Guard. > There are a total of 6 Maritime Academys in the US. 5 run by different state college systems, one the National Maritime Academy at Kings Point. The training at the state matitime academys includes running the training ships on a cruze each year. Navy midshipmen (both Academy and ROTC) spend a little time on ships during the summer - after their first and third years, IIRC - so they can do theory-to-practice things and get acquainted with real life. On submarines the junior ones wear enlisted working uniforms and work with the crew, doing fun things like driving the boat, while the senior ones wear khakis and work with the officers. One year, on my last boat, we actually had a Kings Point midshipman… ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/77 "2012-12-29T01:39:23Z")
Since I’ve got some submariners on the phone, is it true that it is disconcerting coming off a tour to have silence around when you try to sleep? ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/78 "2012-12-29T02:51:55Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > From what I read, the captain on my training ship had the rarest license there is, Unlimited Master; Motor, Steam, and Sail. No such thing. Could have a Unliimited Masters power and sail, and a Chief Engineer Steam and Motor any Hp. Which training ship were you on? And When? ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/79 "2012-12-29T02:58:20Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > From what I read, the captain on my training ship had the rarest license there is, Unlimited Master; Motor, Steam, and Sail. One of my teachers had a very rare licence. a 1 on 1 Chief anyHp steam and motor vessels. He ws a former Coast Guard Captian who worked in the licencing depatmrnt of the USCG. That neans he never sat for a 3rds, 2nd’s or 1st on ly his chiefs. But he did know his stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011/80 "2012-12-29T03:26:49Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > ‘Jonah’ is a term for someone who has loads of bad luck, everything screws up around them, hence a Jonah trip is a deployment where everything goes wrong. Something to do with biblical events I believe… “Jonah” was soldier slang (although not naval slang, that I’ve been able to find) during the American Civil War for the klutz/schlub/fool that every unit seemed to have at least one of. Not necessarily unlucky, but not especially welcome, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-must-be-basic-training-for-sailors-right-whats-in-it/645011.md?page=5)