# there names are all wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 23, 2000, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977 "2000-10-23T15:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GuitarStrummer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/838e76/32.png) [@GuitarStrummer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuitarStrummer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/1 "2000-10-23T15:29:55Z")
Why was England so named when the greater part of the population was saxon? Why was Wales so named when most of the population was British (Britons)? Why was Scotland so named when the greater part of the population was either pict or celt? Why was Ireland so named when most of the population was celtic? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/2 "2000-10-23T15:38:52Z")
Why did you use “there” when “their” is clearly the appropriate word in this instance? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/3 "2000-10-23T16:21:24Z")
No, no, no. He’s clearly saying “(over) there, names are all wrong.” And why? Well, because them UK peoples are all messed up in the head. Have you seen what side of the street they drive on? Sheesh! Or maybe it’s one of those Greenland/Iceland trickeries. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/4 "2000-10-23T16:24:16Z")
Perhaps is was named England because there is already a Saxony on the Continent. Then again, there’s a place in Germany called _Angeln_ also named after the Angles. I don’t think the Britons have any right to feel stilted. They’ve got the whole damn island named after them, and Brittany to boot. _Welsh_ derives from a Germanic (Anglo-Saxon) root meaning “foreign”. _Walnut_ and _Walloon_ derive from related roots. _Scot_ derives from Latin “Scottus” of unknown origin. The _Ir_ in _Ireland_ seems to be the same root as the Irish name(s) for Ireland (Eirinn, Erin, Eire, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![gabbyhayes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@gabbyhayes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gabbyhayes)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/5 "2000-10-23T16:32:33Z")
“Saxony” was already taken. England takes its name from the name given the people by the Romans. Dark-skinned and black-haired Romans (like all the mediterranean people, they’d interbred with semites and africans for millennia) were suddenly confronted with the pale-skinned, white-haired nordics of England, and they referred to them as angels, hence angleterre–angel land–hence england (from the germans who conquered england in the first century of the second millennium) who spelled angel as engle. Wales is so named because the people there were the welsh. Ireland is so named because the people there are pissed off all the time. Scotland is so named because the Romans were unable to conquer it (hence Hadrian’s wall) and thus unable to tax its people. Scot is derived from the word for tax (as in getting off scott-free). The scots got off scott-free, so that’s what the area was called. Bizarre, no? Another interesting tidbit–Nottingham, of Robin Hood fame, was originally known as Snottingham and the locals known as Snots. From this we derive snotty and snooty. At some point, for reasons I don’t know, the S was dropped and it became Nottingham. But, as far as I can recall, the people in the area are not known as Nots but Nottinghammers. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/6 "2000-10-23T17:45:51Z")
**gabby** , you forgot the warning label on your post. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/7 "2000-10-23T18:05:06Z")
You can’t be serious: Ireland named because the people there are always pissed off!? I don’t believe it. While we’re over there, can some one explain the differences amont the following names: Britain, Great Britain, and Brittany? ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/8 "2000-10-23T18:12:57Z")
“Amont” is not some esoteric word, but a typo for “among.” Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/9 "2000-10-23T18:43:31Z")
**barbitu8** , Britain and Great Britain are one and the same - one’s just a shorter name. Brittany is a region of France (_Bretagne_ in French, IIRC). ---
**Author:** ![TampaFlyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@TampaFlyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TampaFlyer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2000, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/10 "2000-10-23T22:07:56Z")
\> Britain and Great Britain are one and the same - one’s just a shorter name. I thought Britain was another name for the nation also known as the U.K., and Great Britain was the island containing England, Wales, & Scotland. And Brittany is a teen “singer” who dresses like a slut. ---
**Author:** ![mongrel\_8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@mongrel\_8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mongrel_8)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/11 "2000-10-24T01:02:09Z")
Ireland means Eire’s land. Eire is what the native Irish call Ireland. Not much but I will try to get more. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/12 "2000-10-24T01:34:25Z")
Great Britain (I agree with Mattk that ‘Britain’ is simply used as a short version) is England, Scotland and Wales. The United Kingdom = Great Britain + Northern Ireland. Eire = Southern Ireland I can’t remember where the Channel Islands (Jersey, Guernsey etc.) fit in. I think they’re administered or something. I expect the Isle of Man and the Isle of Wight are British. We play football as England,Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Eire but compete in the Olympics as GB and NI. The ‘British’ Chess Federation covers only England. There are English, Scottish and Welsh rugby teams, but one Irish team covering both North AND South. British Telecomms used to cover all of Britain except Hull (a city in the North of England). Israel have won the Eurovision song contest - but Israel is not in Europe.\* I don’t know how all of this came about. I don’t know if I’ve made a mistake in the above, but I think you can forgive me if I have. 😉 \*I just threw that in - but it’s true! ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/13 "2000-10-24T01:39:25Z")
And Germany is named after all the germs Finland has a large number of sharks And Sudan must have a lot of lawyers with a grudge againts a recent VP. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/14 "2000-10-24T17:17:47Z")
The simple answer to the OP is that the different inhabitants of the different parts of the British Isles have called themselves and each other different things at different times. In some cases the names used reflect assumptions about their history which would now be rejected. England - land of the Angles, as in the Anglo-Saxons. Scotland - land of the Scoti, the tribe supposedly from Ireland from whom the Scots claimed descent. ‘Celts’ is a relatively new name for either the Scots or the Irish, and some archaeologists dispute whether it has any real meaning. Wales - I think bibliophage is probably right on that one. Ireland - the answer is along the lines that mongrel\_8 gave. Great Britain - now defined strictly as England, Scotland and Wales, although some older authorities would have included Ireland. First popularised in the seventeenth century after the Union of the Crowns of England and Scotland. Despite what mattk implies, there is a connection with Brittany. The idea that there was a Great Britain, rather than just Britain, was originally used to distinguish it from Little Britain, i.e. Brittany. This may just have been wishful thinking (the Bretons did not think of themselves as Little Britons), but it did sound more impressive. The ultimate origin of the name is the Latin Britannia. Britain can now be used interchangably with Great Britain. United Kingdom - shortened form of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Official name of the political unit. British Isles - this is the controversial one. Usually means the group of islands off the north-west coast of the European mainland. Unpopular with the Irish as it implies that Ireland is somehow British. There is no obvious alternative name. Suggestions please. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/15 "2000-10-24T17:34:56Z")
How about “Britirish Isles”? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2000, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/16 "2000-10-24T20:33:01Z")
I’m almost certain that Cecil has answered this, but the search engine isn’t happy right now. Anyone else want to check? ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-names-are-all-wrong/37977/17 "2000-10-26T11:18:34Z")
I stumbled upon this Mailbag item while looking for something else: [What’s the difference between the United Kingdom, Great Britain, and England?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/muk.html) Also Cecil’s column [Why does the UK call itself “Great” Britain? What’s so great about it?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_153.html)