# There was 'Community spread' of covid-19 in France as early as December 2019 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [May 5, 2020, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-community-spread-of-covid-19-in-france-as-early-as-december-2019/853176 "2020-05-05T13:37:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-community-spread-of-covid-19-in-france-as-early-as-december-2019/853176/21 "2020-05-08T02:17:43Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > That seems a very strange view to take. > > The truth of the reports is completely independent of the way in which they are being used. > > There is no reason to doubt the report of December infections from France, you can consider that good evidence _and at the same time_ be critical of how the deniers (whatever they are) choose to interpret it. I guess I should say I’m skeptical because this is an anecdotal report by ONE researcher that has not been to my knowledge peer reviewed; then Deniers jump all over and say “we’ve had it all along, march everyone back to the meat plants!” They did the same thing with the Santa was Clara county report. Not peer reviewed, small sample the same reaction by the Deniers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-community-spread-of-covid-19-in-france-as-early-as-december-2019/853176/22 "2020-05-08T05:28:40Z")
Santa was Clara? ---
**Author:** ![Carryon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Carryon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carryon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-community-spread-of-covid-19-in-france-as-early-as-december-2019/853176/23 "2020-05-08T17:10:51Z")
> [@MaverocK](#): > > I read somewhere that the first case for HIV goes as far back as 1920s. I am too lazy to find where I read it but if you are interested, maybe you can google it. The first definite case (through blood samples) goes back to the 50s, but there is documentation of illnesses that sound like AIDS in isolated central African area back to the late 1800s. But of course you can’t tell for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Carryon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Carryon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carryon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-community-spread-of-covid-19-in-france-as-early-as-december-2019/853176/24 "2020-05-08T17:14:43Z")
Marburg disease broke in Europe (in a lab setting) in the late 60s, then stopped. It appeared in three isolated cases (all involving people in contact with bat caves) till the late 90s, when epidemics started. Marburgvirus’s cousin Ebola, started in the late 70s. At the time the viruses were considered identical but they produced different antibodies, so the doctors knew they were different. But stories of both diseases flaring up in tiny numbers and dying out go way back from their first actual cases. So it would seem viruses pop in and out of populations, until they find a particular population they can exploit or mutate enough, so they don’t kill off their hosts before they can multiply. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-community-spread-of-covid-19-in-france-as-early-as-december-2019/853176/25 "2020-05-08T17:29:33Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > There was no C19 test in November, but there was a flu test. People who had bad respiratory disease in November where tested for flu, so the flu numbers reflect the number of people who actually had the flu. > > C19 was first identified in Wuhan as a respiratory disease that was “not flu”, because they had a big bump in “not flu” respiratory disease. We didn’t see that big “not flu” respiratory disease bump in France or in the USA until later. Flu tests are notoriously unreliable, especially the quick ones doctors can do on site. I had flu this January (and it was almost certainly flu, not COVID) and my test was negative. But the doctor looked at me, listened to my description (very rapid onset, fever, aches) and diagnosed me (appropriately) with flu. That is very common. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-community-spread-of-covid-19-in-france-as-early-as-december-2019/853176.md?page=1)