# There was no nuclear disaster at Fukushima **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796 "2023-09-27T22:10:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/141 "2023-09-29T19:48:38Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > They collected all this water just because? Just because of public overreaction, yes. Surely you don’t believe that just because the government has poured billions (or trillions) into some endeavor, that they had good reasons to do so and that the response actually acts as a solution to the problem? Again, the radiation in that water is absolutely minuscule compared to the natural radioactivity of the ocean. It’s only a few tens of PBq, which is small compared to the earlier release of 940 PBq, and both numbers are infinitesimal to natural radiation levels (when sufficiently diluted). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/142 "2023-09-29T20:02:55Z")
I’m still waiting for the IAEA’s rating of the Kingston fly ash spill, by the way. Because, you know, if that event (which released much more radioactive material than Fukushima, and killed more people) isn’t rated, then their scale is pretty much completely worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/143 "2023-09-29T20:36:39Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Again, the radiation in that water is absolutely minuscule compared to the natural radioactivity of the ocean. I think you are conflating the water being discharged with the water in the tanks. The water in the tanks is [treated before discharge](https://www.iaea.org/topics/response/fukushima-daiichi-nuclear-accident/fukushima-daiichi-alps-treated-water-discharge). The one thing they cannot get out is tritium which is being dumped into the sea but, as you said, at very low levels. I do not think the water in the tanks is as clean as you suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/144 "2023-09-29T20:51:27Z")
Well, I don’t know the provenance of that picture so I couldn’t say for sure if it’s pre- or post-treatment (or both). The point is that they are storing treated water today, and there continue to be objections to its release due to the minuscule amount of remaining tritium. The fact that they are still storing it is not evidence that it’s dangerous. It only demonstrates that they have responded to public pressure. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/145 "2023-09-29T20:54:29Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Well, I don’t know the provenance of that picture… Take your pick of many from [this Google Image page](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=569475139&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS956US956&sxsrf=AM9HkKmvcUBoYfCYJwD8FZQiEn-HUdqVVg:1696020809853&q=fukushima+water+tanks&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiwqJzv2dCBAxU_mokEHf4nCD0Q0pQJegQIDRAB&biw=2560&bih=1291). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/146 "2023-09-29T20:59:22Z")
Most of the articles don’t have any detail, but the [Asahi link](https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13061378) says it’s post-treatment. So it is as clean as I suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/147 "2023-09-29T21:00:38Z")
Instead of looking at pictures, you could read your own cite. > [@](#): > > Where does the water stored at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station (NPS) come from? > > Since the accident in March 2011, water is needed to continually cool the melted fuel and fuel debris at the Fukushima Daiichi NPS. In addition to the water pumped in for this purpose, groundwater also seeps into the site from the surrounding environment, and rainwater falls into the damaged reactor and turbine buildings. When water comes into contact with melted fuel, fuel debris and other radioactive substances, it becomes contaminated. > > The contaminated water is then treated through a filtration process known as Advanced Liquid Processing System (ALPS) to remove most of the radioactivity before being stored The water is generated over time as part of the containment effort or through rain. It is then cleaned of everything harmful except tritium. It was then stored perpetually, for no good reason, due to aforementioned nuclear panic. That policy is now being changed. The water would be safe to dump out all at once, tritium included. But out of an abundance of caution it will be dumped slowly instead. Eventually the backlog will clear and any new water can be filtered and then dumped. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/148 "2023-09-29T21:05:40Z")
The best-case scenario is that a Japanese Mr. Bean bumps into the master valve lever and dumps all of it into the sea before anyone realizes what’s happening. Absolutely no harm would come of it and the public would save billions. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/149 "2023-09-29T21:07:42Z")
This suggests differently: > About 70% of the water held in the tanks still contains cesium, strontium, carbon-14 and other radionuclides exceeding government-set levels. It will be re-treated until the concentrations meet those limits, then diluted by more than 100 times its volume of seawater before it is released. - [SOURCE](https://apnews.com/article/japan-fukushima-nuclear-radioactive-wastewater-release-fdaed86a7366f68c70eca0397b71b221) The tanked water is not as clean as you seem to think. The discharge will be fine (as you said). Them tanking clean water to appease the public is a pretty big conspiracy theory. Up there with the moon landings being a hoax. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/150 "2023-09-29T21:14:59Z")
There’s no mystery. TEPCO has been asking to release the water for years, and they’re only just now starting. Why has it taken so long? Public pressure. Your AP link has a quote that sums it up quite well: > The head of the National Federation of Fisheries Cooperatives, Masanobu Sakamoto, said [on Monday](https://apnews.com/article/fukushima-treated-water-release-fisheries-kishida-e92eef17dc64f949f8910da373801499) that “scientific safety and the sense of safety are different.” Feelings \> science. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/151 "2023-09-29T21:16:24Z")
This entire thread… https ://i.kym-cdn.com /photos/images/original/001/191/035/135.png ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/152 "2023-09-29T21:25:03Z")
**Warning** for @Omniscient for a very blatant threadshit. This in no way contributes to the thread and is really uncalled for. **Moderating:** I’m also breaking the picture link. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/153 "2023-09-29T21:47:17Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Your AP link has a quote that sums it up quite well: Worth getting the rest of the quote: > “Scientific safety and the sense of safety are different,” Sakamoto said. “Even if it’s safe, reputational damage occurs.” I can understand Sakamoto’s position. If the public thinks they’re getting radioactive fish–independent of the scientific reality–it damages the fishery business as much as if it were a real problem. So TEPCO and the government face pressure _even from parties that know there is no safety issue_, because their interests are tied to the ignorant public. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/154 "2023-09-29T21:49:50Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I can understand Sakamoto’s position. If the public thinks they’re getting radioactive fish–independent of the scientific reality–it damages the fishery business as much as if it were a real problem. So TEPCO and the government face pressure _even from parties that know there is no safety issue_, because their interests are tied to the ignorant public. The Satanic Panic analogy from before comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/155 "2023-09-29T23:42:48Z")
Interesting thread. I came in feeling one way, and I have now been persuaded to change my view. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/156 "2023-09-29T23:46:03Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Japanese Mr. Bean bumps into the master valve lever and dumps all of it into the sea before anyone realizes what’s happening Even better, “SNL’s Pepsi Syndrome” **President Jimmy Carter** : Don’t touch me. I’m a nuclear engineer, and I’m pretty worried right now. You’ve got six inches of radioactive water in that room. You’d better drain that. (…a day later) **Dr. Edna Casey** : Mrs. Carter, your husband was exposed to massive doses of radiation. Now this has affected the entire cell structure of his body and greatly accelerated the growth process. **Rosalynn Carter** : Well, what does that mean? **Dr. Edna Casey** : It means, Mrs. Carter, your husband, President Carter, has become [camera zooms in on Dr. Edna Casey] The amazing colossal president. **Rosalynn Carter** : Well how big is he? **Dr. Edna Casey** : Well Mrs. Carter, it’s difficult to comprehend just how big he is but to give you some idea, we’ve asked comedian Rodney Dangerfield to come along today to help explain it to you. Rodney? [Rodney Dangerfield enters] **Rodney Dangerfield** : How do you do, how are you? Ross Denton\*\*: Rodney, can you please tell us, how big is the president? **Rodney Dangerfield** : Oh, he’s a big guy, I’ll tell you that, he’s a big guy. I tell you he’s so big, I saw him sitting in the George Washington bridge dangling his feet in the water! He’s a big guy! ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/157 "2023-09-29T23:57:30Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The Japanese government, pandering to _the public’s concern_, has _already_ destroyed their own nuclear power sector. Other countries, like Germany, have followed suit. …you say this like its a bad thing. > [@Babale](#): > > The public is **already** freaking out over a _non-issue_. Who exactly is “freaking out?” This is very loaded language in a thread that is arguing that loaded language is a bad thing. > [@Babale](#): > > Just like the Satanic Panic in the 80s, only with far worse socioeconomic consequences. And this is _hyperbole_. I live in a country that has banned nuclear ships since 1994, that will never ever have nuclear power, and we are doing just _fine_. The damage that the satanic panic caused in the 80’s is akin to the trans panic that we are going through now. It is _nothing_ like what we are seeing in regards to nuclear power. Not even on the same planet. And about this “non-issue” thing. Thats just like…your opinion. You are entitled to hold that opinion. But that isn’t something that a government should use when making decisions that concern the lives, welfare, and well-being of their citizens. I think the Japanese authorities made the right call, based on expert advice, on the long-term handling of Fukushima. And you need to directly address that if you want us to accept that this is a non-issue. > [@Babale](#): > > The public’s unfounded concerns _should_ be steamrolled - not by ignoring the public, but with an intense and lasting PR campaign to educate people. > [@Babale](#): > > But apparently educating people about how harmful radiation factually is is a form of Fallout-esque propaganda, according to some in this thread. It’s funny, but I have a hard time distinguishing between “an intense and lasting PR campaign to educate people” and “propaganda.” Because PR, by its very nature, will hide inconvenient truths. It doesn’t give the full story. And an _intense and lasting_ PR campaign just double-downs on that. Many of the posts in this thread could be read as PR for the nuclear industry. Even the _thread title_. [![](https://i.imgflip.com/80x5ae.jpg) ](https://i.imgflip.com/80x5ae.jpg) The thing is, we are in Great Debates. And the standard really should be higher than basically regurgitating industry PR talking points. If you don’t want to call what happened at Fukushima a nuclear disaster? Fine. It doesn’t matter to me. But we are in Great Debates. And you need much more than PR talking points if you want to convince me that “the public is freaking out.” That this was a “non-issue.” That complex decisions made by countries like Germany and Japan about the future direction they take in regards to sustainability and power generation are objectively wrong. > [@Babale](#): > > The Satanic Panic analogy from before comes to mind. The satanic panic analogy is _terrible_. Especially when the modern-day analogue to satanic panic: what is happening with trans people, critical-race-theory, anti-vaxxers, qanon, the entire disinformation ecosystem, is probably the number one issue the world is facing right now. People not wanting to eat fish because they _perceive_ it to be unsafe is _not_ at the level of banning books and throwing people in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/158 "2023-09-30T00:00:30Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > People not wanting to eat fish because they _perceive_ it to be unsafe is _not_ at the level of banning books and throwing people in jail. Shutting down nuclear power plants due to falsely perceived dangers is absolutely on the same scale–or significantly beyond–as all the other things you mentioned. Being scared of radioactive fish is just one symptom of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/159 "2023-09-30T00:02:49Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I can understand Sakamoto’s position. If the public thinks they’re getting radioactive fish–independent of the scientific reality… There is no shortage of examples of corporations and/or the government telling people all is fine while that corporation is causing great harm to people and/or the environment. It is almost expected these days as corporations protect shareholder value above all else. People are understandably leery and wary of pious proclamations. I am not saying that is happening here but it is not unreasonable for the government and TEPCO to work hard to assuage concerns. That said, I do not think they spent billions just for feels either. Money still rules in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796/160 "2023-09-30T00:07:03Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Shutting down nuclear power plants due to falsely perceived dangers …see? This is what I’m talking about. “Falsely perceived dangers” is an _assertion_. Its PR garbage as far as I’m concerned. We are in Great Debates. I’m not going to just accept your assertion over the multi-layered decision-making of governments just because _you say so_. No, I don’t accept that this is at the same scale, or significantly beyond, all of the other things I mentioned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/there-was-no-nuclear-disaster-at-fukushima/990796.md?page=9)