I found the music distracting. Whenever I find myself thinking about the soundtrack during the movie, it is a sign it has failed. The music should never intrude on the story, and in this movie, it did.
I loved the acting. But I found it to be a series of brilliant scenes between interminable stretches of WTF?. Perhaps I am just not sophisticated enough to get it, but I blame the script and the director. Too many scenes apparently depended on nothing more than the facial expressions of the actors to convey important bits of the story. Lewis and Dano are good, but not good enough to make up for the lack of dialogue, and the director’s self indulgent preference for cinematography over story.
When Plainview was forced to proclaim he abandoned his child it was clear that he felt guilty. Later when he made Eli shout he was a false prophet and god is fiction he didn’t really do it with conviction, do you guys think that was because of Paul Dano’s limited acting ability or the character really did believe he was a prophet and was humoring him.
Why does Plainview kick the shit out of Eli for asking about his $5,000? I thought they would have shed some light on this by the end but they didn’t.
Do you guys think Plainview really did help Paul out or lied just to hurt Eli?
Fear Itself, needless to say, I disagree strongly with every one of your complaints, but hey, each to their own. Sorry it didn’t work for you.
We’re on the 2nd page now, so I’m going to stop with the boxed spoilers.
SPOILER ALERT!
Plainview explained why he was kicking the shit out of Eli while he was kicking the shit out of Eli. Eli wanted his sheep to believe he was a healer, but he never made an effort to come to Plainview’s place and try to heal HW, and then he has the nerve to walk up to Plainview and demand an amount of money that Plainview never agreed to (Plainview said he would donate $1000 to Eli’s church, but Eli still wanted $5000). Plainview just snapped.
I included the scene on my TWBB links page. Watch it again and you’ll see.
Plainview believes that he did abandon his child, Eli didn’t believe that he was a false prophet. I don’t think it’s a case of bad acting but that simply one character believed what he was being forced to admit and the other one didn’t.
One thing about DDL’s role: he really takes on the attributes of a late 19th-early 20th century speculator, even down to the dental work. It is a trtuly fine piece of acting as he is an oilman, not just acting like one… or even worse, “Daniel Day Lewis” playing an oilman.
I’m wondering if, among other scenes, you’re talking about this part of the film in particular (WARNING, MASSIVE SPOILER for those who haven’t seen it, but then you shouldn’t be reading this far into the thread) and I can’t imagine why you would want dialogue there. The look on Plainview’s face is perfectly clear.
I don’t get the view that the movie is somehow objectively mediocre. Some of the discussion in this thread suggests to me that it’s a question of how much you think a movie should depend on subtext. I, for example, tend to like an extreme amount of subtlety and ambiguity, even to the point where the viewer is very likely to miss some important parts of the plot and/or theme. So, I loved this movie (even though I missed some things that I was supposed to get the first time through).
OTOH, I absolutely hated Crash. It just felt to me like, every time the movie wanted to make a point or say something about a character, it got out a megaphone; I found it to be obnoxious. That doesn’t mean that it was a bad movie, just that I prefer a softer touch. And, of course, there were lots of things to like about the film, so I can see how people who are unlike me in this regard might love it.
Really neither here nor there, but to address a couple of points from the review that spoke posted:
Plainview’s motivation is explicit. He up and says exactly what he wants: enough money to be left alone, away from all these … people.
I don’t know what it means that his relationship with his H.W. is “depicted without being explored.” The film doesn’t make it entirely clear what you should think about the nature of their relationship, but, again, that’s a strength and not a weakness from my point of view.
This is probably part of why you didn’t like it: you were expecting A and got B. I don’t know how I would describe the movie, but the phrase “historical epic” wouldn’t escape my lips. It’s just a completely different kind of movie from, say, any of these. I know if I went into the theater excited to see a Ghandi or a Spartacus, but instead got There Will Be Blood, I’d walk out with a big WTF?? look on my face.
BTW: I had a lot to say about this movie (more intelligent than what I did say about it, I assure you! ), but found that Equipoise and Diogenes said it better before I even found the thread. Basically, I pretty much completely agree with both of them, and I agree with some of what 2.5" is saying and I like the way he thinks. And Jonny Greenwood is my new god. Equipoise, how did the score get disqualified?
The movie never put forth the idea that all people who go to church are either corrupt or stupid. For example,
the last holdout–I forgot his name; the guy whose land Plainview needed to lease so he could put his pipeline through it–seemed to me to be genuinely interested in Plainview’s salvation. As did the other townspeople, who were mostly churchgoers and who were generally not presented as corrupt or stupid.
Yay! I’m glad you liked it! Anyone who likes this movie is my new best friend (whether they want to be or not, and no matter how much we’ve clashed in the past). I saw it again last night (my 5th time) and I’m not getting tired of it at all. It’s retaining every bit of its power, and I could see it again and again.
But I do want to hear what you have to say about it! We don’t always agree, but I respect what you say (especially when I agree! )
Ditto on the god part. I’d never even heard of him before I saw this movie (though I had heard of Radiohead) and now I worship at his feet. The score was disqualified because it wasn’t completely original. Some of the pieces were from previous works by Greenwood. Many people called bullshit, because Babel won last year with even less original music, but outsiders have no say in the matter. There was and still is outrage about it though. No one is going to let the music branch of the Academy forget about it. Here’s the Variety story about it.
I agree.
Totally not important, but I was reading back through the thread to remind myself what I’d already said, and I noticed that I made a boneheaded blunder. I said…
What a retard I am. Of course I meant Plainview instead of Eli. I blame the vodka.
Also, I was wrong about this:
Eli had asked for $10,000 and Plainview said he would give $5,000, though he never paid until right before the “baptism.”
Actually, he hadn’t paid at that point; remember that Eli said during his conversion, “Mr. Plainview has generally pledged $5,000 to our church, which I am still waiting for.” I don’t remember if Plainview ever paid it, actually.
OK.
First off, it’s easily the most immersive film I’ve seen in a while. Although I actually came close to nodding off during the slowest parts due to a caffeine crash (I have no tolerance for caffeine anymore–worst part is I don’t even feel the buzz anymore, I just feel the crash), the pace was just about perfect for building up the tension required for the powerfully explosive climaxes of violence.
The acting was superb all around, although I must be completely honest and say that it took me a while to warm up to both DDL’s and Paul Dano’s performances. I got the impression at first that both were trying a little too hard; eventually I realized that DDL was overdoing his American accent (which is fine, considering how mindblowing he was in depicting every other aspect of his character) and Dano’s character was trying too hard.
I loved that the film pit evil huckster vs. evil huckster, and that, as DtC alluded to, it successfully used a religious movement as a metaphor for the soul or the innate humanity of a society without endorsing real-world religion in the least. I believe that it still takes some courage to portray Christianity in the way TWBB did.
The music wasn’t necessarily what I would rock out to at home, but it was godly in that it wrapped perfectly around the emotions of the movie despite being completely historically inappropriate. Greenwood was not afraid to take chances, and reached that pinnacle of musical achievement: being able to plug straight into the audience’s synapses with a score that could have easily alienated most of the viewers if crafted by a lesser man. Like another poster upthread, I was reminded of Kubrick’s movies and of Altered States–but I think that this succeeds those excellent scores because it was successfully employed against a backdrop that has really never accommodated electronic music before.
I posted that because in my viewings I’d heard Eli announce to the congregation after the baptism that Plainview had pledged $5000, but I have never understood that “which I am still waiting for” bit. I’ll have to listen extra close on my next viewing now that I know what he’s saying. And of course it makes perfect sense, because at the end Eli asks for a $100,000 bonus plus the $5000 Plainview promised the church. I don’t why I didn’t catch that before. Ok, I know why, but those brain cells really had somewhere else they needed to be.
Thanks for your post, I appreciate it. I understand why people might not like the music but it’s like another character to me. Rather than wanting the music to be an unnoticed part of the background, in There Will Be Blood I wait with eager anticipation for certain parts of the score to play, the way some people might wait with anticipation for a favorite character to walk on screen. I love every second of music in the film, but my favorite is “Proven Lands” which plays when Plainview and Henry are surveying Bandy’s tract. It used to be on Jonny Greenwood’s MySpace page but it got taken down. A snippet of it can be heard at the soundtrack’s Amazon page.
Not by itself. But if CK had a number of other flaws as well, I would say it contributed to a lack of greatness.
Here’s another thing I found weak: Whenever a movie resorts to “Seven years later…” and “Twelve years later…” it disappoints me. That’s a big gap to just skip over. What happened in the interval? Did these people not have experiences that changed them in any way that would contribute to the story? It is laziness on the part of the scriptwriter and the director. Fill in the blanks a little, make the intervals a little shorter, so we can see some character development. For me, it is all about the story. I will accept weaknesses everywhere else (such as the music), but if the story is unclear or unsatisfying, it really affects my appreciation of the film.
But There Will Be Blood doesn’t have any “other” weaknesses either.
You kind of tipped your hand when you complained about the movie relying on facial expressions rather than dialogue. To my mind, dialogue that wasn’t needed because the context and Daniel Day-Lewis’s acting made everything fairly clear. You seem to want the screenwriter and director to hold your hand and tell you exactly what’s going on and what to think. That’s fine, but this isn’t that kind of movie, and your expectations, just like spoke’s expectations of a sweeping historical epic, are a reflection of you, not the movie. I think the events between the various segments are fairly easy to figure out what happened.
Plainview took the money he made from the silver mine to start a small oil drilling operation.
Plainview took the money he made from his small oil drilling operation to become a name in the independent oil drilling business.
There are events leading up to the last segment we’re not told about. Where did HW go before coming back to see Plainview? Why did HW want to go to Mexico to start his own company instead of just taking over the Plainview business? but the whys and wherefores aren’t all that important. Plainview had clearly lost his mind. HW had clearly gotten fed up with Plainview. Eli did well for himself before losing everything in the crash, prompting him to come to Plainview with his hat in hand. What else do you want to know?
It just wasn’t for you. I get that. It doesn’t reflect on the film in any way.
Exactly. Of course, more people have my back than yours. Not just here. It’s 91% at Rotten Tomatoes, 92 at Metacritic, 8 Academy Award nominations including Best Picture, Best Director and Best Adapted Screenplay, nominated for almost every major critics and Guild award…
Obviously the movie is over some people’s heads. There’s no point in trying to argue with them. let them enjoy Alvin and the Chipmunks. That has a story and music they can understand.
), but found that Equipoise and Diogenes said it better before I even found the thread. Basically, I pretty much completely agree with both of them, and I agree with some of what 2.5" is saying and I like the way he thinks. And Jonny Greenwood is my new god. Equipoise, how did the score get disqualified?
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