# There's a new Jack Chick tract, and boy is it a doozy! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2001, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495 "2001-11-05T00:23:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/201 "2001-11-11T00:20:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > Count me as one of mnay (but no one else on the sdmb) who thinks Harry Potter is intended to teach children witchcraft. And yes, i won’t let my son read it. In all seriousness if you believe this then you believe that AOL/Time Warner are out to turn our children to Satan? Is Scholastic Books one of the most paranoid hyperconservative companies in the world operating in concert with them to spread the word of the “You Know Who”? I work for Scholastic dear, if someone comes up with a legit gripe the book gets pulled. Period. We go out of the way to be so damn PC it makes me want to cry sometimes. The arguments that HP is a witchcraft training manual are as well supported and accurate as **Hiryu** ’s physics. So a kid fantasizes about being a wizard, so what. Would you maybe prefer he pretended to be Robin Hood, Spencer, Dirk Pitt, Batman, or Wolverine? Our world is full of heroes with less than ideal motives and methods but they are still doing a fundamentally good thing. ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/202 "2001-11-11T05:23:52Z")
**drachillix** , that would be ``` ***RIDDIKULUS!!![*** ``` Details, dear, pay attention to the details…😉 **vanilla** , the Famous Five were constantly going off exploring and poking their noses in when they’d been told to stay at home and behave. Are they a bad influence too? I (blush) read them when I was a kid and still turned out okay. I also read CS Lewis’ Narnia series and managed to never spend undue amounts of time in closets, looking for passages to magical lands. I can assure you of one thing; Harry Potter has about as much to do with real paganism or Wicca as the Famous Five do to a real police force. ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/203 "2001-11-11T05:27:21Z")
…and after talking about paying attention to details, I go and leave that extra bracket in there… :o :hangs head in shame: ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/204 "2001-11-11T06:33:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*It certainly sparks their interest in witchcraft. > Not a good thing IMHO. > IRL, all my fellow christians and I believe witchcraft, casting spells, etc. are evil, and we teach our children this. > It would be like letting them read The Satanic Bible. > Scoff all you want, I wont be changing your opinion, nor you mine. > For the record, I think Mr. Chick is a bit screwy myself. \*\* Whoah, now. You’re saying that in the books, Harry Potter summons demons and uses their intercession to produce the desired effects? The Harry Potter universe is an explicitly Christian one, and Harry rejects Jesus in order to cast spells? Or are you just saying that it might give kids ideas? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/205 "2001-11-11T20:16:46Z")
Yes, my only access to computers is in the public libraries. I will go check it out(Chick’s site) But IIRC, I am in complete agreement with our former Arg/Zion’s religious beliefs. I don’t recall if he actually agreed with all of Chick, however. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/206 "2001-11-11T21:36:58Z")
Vanilla: Arg actually _said_ he agreed with Chick’s take on all of Chick’s stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/207 "2001-11-12T03:41:53Z")
Vanilla, if I might ask some further questions, do you let your kids read the Narnia novels? And what do you think of movies like Disney’s “The Sword in the Stone”? -Ben ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/208 "2001-11-12T09:03:19Z")
**jr8** _wanders in…_ \ **Ow!** Hey – who left all these straw men lying around for people to trip over? And why do they all look like **vanilla**? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/209 "2001-11-12T14:19:28Z")
jr8: What does that mean? Please elaborate. Excuse my not knowing, but whats a straw man? Ben: Yes. We usually watch teh cartoon network. We don’t see many movies, we’ve seen about 7 kids movies together. Not the one you mention though. My son (one only) gets his books from the kids section of the library. I still dunno Chick’s theology. Will check it out. I think he seesm kindof nutbally though. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/210 "2001-11-13T20:39:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*Ben: Yes. \*\* Could you provide some cites for this? I’m a little surprised that there’s not more controversy, if Harry Potter explicitly denounces Christ and allies himself with Satan. > [@](#): > > \*\* We usually watch teh cartoon network. \*\* I’m afraid I don’t see your point. How is this connected to my questions? > [@](#): > > \*\* > My son (one only) gets his books from the kids section of the library. \*\* Again, I don’t see your point. -Ben ---
**Author:** ![InkBlot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5e925/32.png) [@InkBlot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InkBlot)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2001, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/211 "2001-11-13T21:39:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Ben** _ > Could you provide some cites for this?..I’m afraid I don’t see your point. How is this connected to my questions? > -Ben If I may leap in here, I think **vanilla** is responding to this post: > [@](#): > > Vanilla, if I might ask some further questions, do you let your kids read the Narnia novels? And what do you think of movies like Disney’s “The Sword in the Stone”? > > -Ben And may have missed your earlier one. I’d also like to take a moment and ask a general question to the group assembled here. Many people has made comments (stemming from **vanilla’s** first post here) about paganism, Wicca, and people’s misperceptions of the same. Obviously, one can pick apart Chick Tracts all day long for all sorts of errors of this sort, but my impression of **vanilla’s** comments so far are best summed up by this: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **vanilla** _ > …IRL, all my fellow christians and I believe witchcraft, casting spells, etc. are evil, and we teach our children this. With no reference to paganism, Wiccan, or other religion I know of (unless you read **a lot** into that “etc.”). So, my question I guess, is why the vehement defense of these religions when they weren’t attacked (at least by **vanilla** )? inkblot ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/212 "2001-11-14T03:43:00Z")
All the Pagans/Wiccans I’ve known identify _themselves_ as witches. The casting (or working or whatever term you prefer) of spells is central to any Wiccan belief system. Of course, the witches I’ve known have been good witches casting only benevolent magicks, but they’re witches practicing witchcraft. According to the quote you provide, this means Vanilla believes they are all sinners on the fast track to hell. ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/213 "2001-11-14T05:58:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by InkBlot \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by **vanilla** _ > > …IRL, all my fellow christians and I believe witchcraft, casting spells, etc. are evil, and we teach our children this. > > With no reference to paganism, Wiccan, or other religion I know of (unless you read **a lot** into that “etc.”). So, my question I guess, is why the vehement defense of these religions when they weren’t attacked (at least by **vanilla** )?\*\* First up, according to **vanilla** , I’m evil, so that may be colouring my comments here ;). I’m a Wiccan and, when someone makes comment about “witchcraft” and “casting spells,” I don’t need to read anything into the “etc”; Wicca is included, since they are integral parts of the faith for many (I can’t say _all_ pagans or Wiccans, since there are many traditions within Wicca and paganism). With the two elements he named, he _did_ attack the Wiccan faith. If **vanilla** thinks he is not including Wiccans in that statement of his, he needs to learn a little about what he’s attacking. Personally, I’d rather base a call on whether someone’s good or evil based on the way they conduct themselves rather than on what religion, if any, they follow. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/214 "2001-11-14T06:19:47Z")
Vanilla’s a she. ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/215 "2001-11-14T09:08:25Z")
[sub]Oops.[/sub] Sorry about that, **vanilla**. ---
**Author:** ![fierra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@fierra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fierra)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/216 "2001-11-14T14:02:39Z")
Newsflash! I found out that Chick works for DC Comics…I picked up the Batman of the Future graphic novel the other day & in it, a kid is playing what looks remarkably like Magic the Gathering, and reads some words off a card, & up pops a demon released from another plane & posseses him! It’s gotta be Chick’s day job! I think the drawing was slightly better than usual, but… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![InkBlot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5e925/32.png) [@InkBlot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InkBlot)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/217 "2001-11-14T15:19:58Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **DocCathode** _ > All the Pagans/Wiccans I’ve known identify _themselves_ as witches. The casting (or working or whatever term you prefer) of spells is central to any Wiccan belief system. Of course, the witches I’ve known have been good witches casting only benevolent magicks, but they’re witches practicing witchcraft. > > According to the quote you provide, this means Vanilla believes they are all sinners on the fast track to hell. I’m sorry, I was posting more on an impression I’d gotten from reading this thread and should probably have gone back and read further. I think my mind had latched onto this particular post: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Tranquilis** _ > Speak for yourself all you want, but don’t speak for others unless they ask you. > JFR, I have a pagan for a sister, and you know what? After having been exposed to the reality of it, it’s not evil, nor vile, and certainly not Satanic. It’s not Christian, **but it’s sure not about casting spells** , either. If you’ll bother to examine it, you’ll even find that many of the principles are quite admirable, taken objectively (‘Do no evil’, ‘harm done is returned to you three-fold’, etc) (bolding is mine) On review, I suppose it might be safe to say **Tranquilis** meant to include the word “entirely” in the bolded phrase, or perhaps now. I’ll let him explain. Still, I posted my question because some people seem to have taken this as a personal attack on and intolerance towards other religions, and I don’t read it that way. I’ve tried three times to continue that paragraph in a meaningful way, but I just can’t see to do it. Maybe it is the high level of intolerance from Jack Chick’s tracts, I don’t know, but it seems to be making quite a few people in this thread a bit touchy. For myself, I see a big differnce in statements like “I believe witchcraft is evil” versus “I believe Wiccans are evil.” No one is trying (that I’ve obviously seen) to convert anyone to their religion here, but they seem quite happy to pick on what’s wrong in everyone elses. Yes, some Christian sects believe homosexuality is bad. Yes, some of them believe magic is evil. Yes, there are some Christian sects which still believe blood transfusions are evil. I don’t entirely know why, I don’t get it, and at this particular point I don’t care to. I do not mind a religion which espouses their moral beliefs, no matter how distasteful they may be. I can always avoid them, if they really turn my stomach. I do mind a religion which tries to force those moral beliefs on others. For everyone who’s been been picking on **vanilla** , has she tried to force her beliefs on you? Or has she been honestly answering your [loaded] questions as best as she can? inkblot, who should really have never walked into this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/218 "2001-11-14T15:35:51Z")
This link here [http://www.chick.com/information/general/statementoffaith.asp](http://www.chick.com/information/general/statementoffaith.asp) Sounds fine to me. If that doesn’t come through; its the statement of faith from Chick’s web page. I don’t imagine any christian disagreeing with that. From some of the links provided in the past on the sdmb, it seems Chick thinks Catholics are bound for hell. I disagree with that. He seems a bit off, like Texe Marrs. Yes, the Bible mentions witchcraft; having anything to do with evil spirits as evil. I certainly agree. Thats MY opinion. Have I ever witnessed on this board? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/219 "2001-11-14T15:54:44Z")
Posts on this forum are more aggressive and adversarial than GD. A post that draws a response of “You freaking moron!” here might only receive “You are greatly mistaken according to (link to cite)…yadda” ``` Additionally, I haven't seen anyone object to the fact that you stated your religious beliefs. They *have* asked you to further explain some of you statements. You have said you believe Harry Potter to be Satanic. You have been asked to explain this. You have not. You will likely receive hostility for your statements on witchcraft. Some Dopers here practice religions which include spellworking. To condemn witchcraft IS a condemnation of them. If this is not what you meant, then please clarify. If this is what you meant, you've just told all Wiccan/Pagan/Neo-Pagan/etc Dopers that they are Satanists. In which case hostility from them is rather understandable. ``` ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/220 "2001-11-14T15:57:48Z")
I do not think they are satanists. I think what they do; casting spells, etc. brings them in contact with evil spirits, and God condemns that. IMHO. So, I’m a minority on the sdmb. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495.md?page=12)