# There's a new Jack Chick tract, and boy is it a doozy! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2001, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495 "2001-11-05T00:23:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/101 "2001-11-06T18:18:31Z")
I still want to know what particular breed of Christian believes that Jesus spoke to Moses several hundred years before he was born. As far as I’ve ever heard, only the Mormons believe in a time-travelling Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/102 "2001-11-06T18:47:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m Born-Again. **Tranquilis** , if you’re a BAC who did notsupport anti-gay legislation, then clearly I’m not talking about you. However, if you wish to contend that every piece of anti-gay legislation, every bill or voter initiative proposed to exclude gay folk from discrimination, has not been initiated or supported by the majority of evangelical Christians, you’re not paying [attention.](http://www.pfaw.org/issues/right/rtvw.antigay.shtml)[Cite2](http://www.gayhealth.com/iowa-robot/news/?record=333)[Cite3](http://www.family.org/cforum/feature/a0016277.html) > [@](#): > > There are plenty of Orthodox Jews who never stooped for that stone. True, but you can’t say they don’t exist. The ultra-Orthodox community of Mea Shearim may be a minority, but the intensity of their religious fervor is proportionate to their intolerance. It only demonstrates my point. > [@](#): > > Loads of Muslims wouldn’t even think about mass murder. Loads of them certainly applauded it. The more intensely religious, the more they hate. And don’t give me Quranic prohibitions against religious hatred; they have nothing to do with Islam as practiced today. [Cite 1](http://memri.org/news/washingtonpost5.html) [Cite 2](http://memri.org/news.html#1004631389) [Cite 3](http://memri.org/sd/SP27401.html) See, I don’t tell religious people not to believe. I am all foe them going to churches, temples and mosques and leaving them in peace to practice their faith. But they aren’t usually willing to return the favor and leave me alone. Here in the US, there are any number of God-botherers who want to ban Harry Potter, discriminate against gays, ban a woman’s right to choose, and make Christian prayer compulsory in schools. look at the difference between Unitarian-Universalists (UUs) and Southern Baptists. UUs are non-doctrinaire, liberal folks who are content to let other people be. Southern Baptists support any number of intolerant, discriminatory causes. I am no threat to religious folks, but they are definitely a threat to me. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/103 "2001-11-06T18:56:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I still want to know what particular breed of Christian believes that Jesus spoke to Moses several hundred years before he was born. Since Jesus is the second Person of the Holy Trinity, He is eternal, always existing before His incarnation, so He could have talked to Moses. > [@](#): > > As far as I’ve ever heard, only the Mormons believe in a time-travelling Jesus No, Mthe LDS believe in a flying Jesus travelling from Judea after the Acension to America to preach to the Nephites. I don’t think there’s anything about time travel in _The Book of Mormon_, _Doctrines and Covenants_,_The Pearl of Great Price_, or\* The Book of Abraham\*. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/104 "2001-11-06T19:02:49Z")
Look **Gobear** , I’m not looking to start a GD here, I’d just like you to be more careful. There are plenty 'o hate-filled extremists out there. You’ve got plenty 'o reason to fear and loathe them. But by naming groups that _include more than just the hate-filled extremists_, you’re doing your cause a disservice. Like by pissing off people who would otherwise agree with your points. Try calling a spade a spade: It’s the Hateful Extremists[sup]tm[/sup] that are your foe. That will be all. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/105 "2001-11-06T20:40:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > Southern Baptists support any number of intolerant, discriminatory causes. While your statement is technically true, it paints with a broad brush. I’m a Southern Baptist, and I can assure you I don’t support any intolerant, discriminatory causes. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/106 "2001-11-06T20:49:18Z")
Southern Baptists, with the exception of **Sauron** and a few others, support any number of intolerant, discriminatory causes ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/107 "2001-11-06T20:49:59Z")
And JFTR, many UUs are non-religious folk, who happen to gather in fellowship to promote social justice causes, among other things. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/108 "2001-11-06T20:54:58Z")
You’re not letting it go, are you, **gobear**? Over-broad descriptions are _bound_ to be false. Be specific, or be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/109 "2001-11-06T20:59:54Z")
> [@](#): > > And JFTR, many UUs are non-religious folk, who happen to gather in fellowship to promote social justice causes, among other things. and there you go, the less religious folks are, the more tolerant and liberal they tend to be. There are always exceptions, of course, but it does seem to be the rule. There are many fine, open-minded Christian folk here at the SDMB, but they are not the doctrinaire, fundamentalist types. The fundamentalists who have posted here, like **FriendofGod** and **Wildest Bill** were intolerant and rigid in their attitudes. I just wish religious folks would show more mercy and less judgement, and that they would act as God’s ambassadors, not as God’s mouthpiece. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/110 "2001-11-06T21:00:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tranquilis \* > \*\*You’re not letting it go, are you, **gobear**? Over-broad descriptions are _bound_ to be false. Be specific, or be wrong. \*\* It’s okay, **Tranq** – he exempted me. Oh, he didn’t exempt you, though. Oh, well. As long as I’m off the hook, it doesn’t matter. Besides, who cares what homosexuals think? They’re all going to burn in Hell anyway. See? There’s that broad brush again. Just slops paint all over the place, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/111 "2001-11-06T21:04:11Z")
> [@](#): > > There are many fine, open-minded Christian folk here at the SDMB, but they are not the doctrinaire, fundamentalist types. The fundamentalists who have posted here, likeFriendofGod and Wildest Billwere intolerant and rigid in their attitudes. Ah! Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/112 "2001-11-06T21:19:33Z")
> [@](#): > > You’re not letting it go, are you, gobear? Over-broad descriptions are bound to be false. Be specific, or be wrong. I said …and a few others… so you may consider yourself exempted. I can’t be specific, al la Romper Room( I see Billy and Suzy and Tommy and Jane…) If I named every single antigay Baptist, the sheer mass of text would crash the servers and make the mods cross. 😃 Here are the facts acording to the Web site of the Southern Baptist Convention [Cite 1](http://www.sbclife.org/articles/1999/09/sla1.asp)In 1999, The Southern Baptist Convention passed yet another resolution expressing its disapproval of homosexuality and those who promote it. [Cite 2](http://www.sbclife.org/articles/1999/06/sla15.asp) In 1997, the SBC passed a resolution to ask its members to boycott Disney because it had allowed same-sex partner benefits for its employees and it allowed Gay Days to be held in its parks. Now you may say that members are not bound by these resolutions, and that the boycott fizzled, but you cannot deny that the official position of the SBC condemns homosexuality. I have provided cite after cite of official Christian anti-gay bias, and all you have given is your own opinion. I am glad that you guys are not anti-gay, but you can’t tell me your churches aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/113 "2001-11-06T21:51:07Z")
I know far too many tollerent “Fundies”, from a variety of religions, to leave it at this. I know far more that could care less what you or anyone else outside their own family does. Try this, instead: “ **Many members of** \ **are intollerent, and much of the leadership of the** \ **support(s)** \.” Do that, and I’ve no argument (provided you keep on providing links). ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/114 "2001-11-06T22:02:57Z")
Also, **gobear** , I mentioned the UU thing above not to prove your point (just because many UUs aren’t religious doesn’t mean that the majority of the membership isn’t - since dealing with UUs is kind of like herding cats I don’t know what the exact proportions are. I happen to be UU and somewhat religious, though not Christian, just FTR) but because you really can’t compare UUs to branches of Christianity without provoking the whole “apples and oranges” image in at least some of us. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/115 "2001-11-06T22:08:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I know far too many tollerent “Fundies”, from a variety of religions, to leave it at this. I know far more that could care less what you or anyone else outside their own family does. If they’re tolerant of homosexuality, they can’t be FCs.(I promised not to use “fundie.”)That’s like saying you know FCs who think the Bible need not be taken literally. I already said that there are exceptions, but my thesis still stands that religion breeds intolerance. IMHO, it will be a fine day when we put away Yahweh and Allah in humanity’s toy closet ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/116 "2001-11-06T22:18:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > > As for **Dark Dungeons,** I’m _still_ wondering which AD&D spellbook I need to buy to find the instructions for doing “real magic”. It’d probably help if I wasn’t actually playing **Paranoia** instead. 😉 > > Citizen! The Computer says casting magic is treason! The Computer says knowing how to cast magic is treason! Not loving The Computer is treason! Do you love The Computer, citizen? You forgot “Treason is punishable by summary execution”! Only an evil commie mutant traitor would fail to memorize the edicts of Our Friend The Computer! Ergo, you are a **traitor** and must be punished! _ZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPZAPkapow!_ [SUB]Still got it after all these years… :D[/SUB] ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/117 "2001-11-06T22:28:37Z")
> [@](#): > > If they’re tolerant of homosexuality, they can’t be FCs.(I promised not to use “fundie.”)That’s like saying you know FCs who think the Bible need not be taken literally. I note that you ignored completly where I said “from a variety of religions”, and went after Fundamentalist Christians. I can’t speak to Islam, nor Judaism, nor Hinduism, but I’m willing to bet that you’ve mischaracterised at least one of them, and I know deeply fundmental followers of all those religions, and more. No, wait, you _did_ include a passing reference to Allah. There are two definitions to “Fundamentalism” that I’m familiar with: 1 : a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching b : the beliefs of this movement c : adherence to such beliefs 2 : a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles Can you guess which one I apply to my Christianity? (Hint: I’m tollerent of many things) Could it be that I fundamentaly follow the teachings of Christ (as best my limited capacity can allow), _in the Spirit they were intended_, as best I can determine? Could it be that I believe that it’s my _fundamental_ religious duty to understand the words of Christ as best as possible, and that dogmatic adherance to plain-text would interfere with that duty? Could it be that there are a large number of people like me? Nah. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/118 "2001-11-06T22:34:18Z")
To beat a dead horse… Isn’t the trinity primarily a _Catholic_ belief? Why would Jack Chick, who believes that Catholics are not Christians, subscribe to a Catholic belief in the trinity? The Christian church I used to go to certainly would not purport that Jesus talked to Moses, or Noah, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/119 "2001-11-07T00:04:03Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by gobear \* > No, the LDS believe in a flying Jesus travelling from Judea after the Acension to America to preach to the Nephites. I don’t think there’s anything about time travel in The Book of Mormon, Doctrines and Covenants,The Pearl of Great Price, or_ The Book of Abraham\*. \*\* Hey, no more of a Flying Jesus™ than in [John 20:26](http://scriptures.lds.org/john/20/26#26). 🙂 And FTR, Jesus’ appearance in the Americas was after the resurrection, but before the “capital-A” Ascension (which was 40 days after the resurrection, as in Acts 1:3). Just doing my part to stomp out ignorance…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/120 "2001-11-07T00:10:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **the Orthodox Jews who stone cars on the Sabbath** SLIGHT weee bitty tiny baby nitpick-they call themselves _Ultra_-Orthodox. A very small sect. And you’re right-people like Jack Chick scoff at the Mother Theresas. Or hell, as something less ambitious-look at Jimmy Carter-who is a “born again” Baptist. The man still teaches Sunday School and is out there, hammering nails and sawing wood to build houses for the homeless and he’s in his 70s for crissakes. (Sorry, I guess Carter is a personal hero of mine). Or some of the Christians I know, like Dr. Brett and Dr. Jourin, and our very own **Polycarp**. It’s sad, it really is that the jackasses have to make everyone else look bad. :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495.md?page=7)