# There's a new Jack Chick tract, and boy is it a doozy! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2001, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495 "2001-11-05T00:23:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/141 "2001-11-07T04:44:54Z")
I have a question here. According to Mr. Chick’s gem [Big Daddy?](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp), a student disproves evolution by saying: [ul] - Lucy, the oldest known human ancestor, is agreed by most experts to be an unusual chimpanzee and not a missing link. - Richard Leaky found a normal human skull under a layer of rock dated at 212 million years (Lucy is 2.9 million years old). - The student produces a chart chronicling the evolution of man showing Lucy as a chimp, Heidleburg Man as being formed from a jaw that was conceded by many to be human, Nebraska Man as created from a single tooth later determined to be a pig tooth, Piltdown Man which turned out to be a modern ape skull, Peking Man who is 500,000 years old but all evidence has disappeared, Neanderthal Man where they claim the Int’l Congress of Zoology a doctor says it’s the skeleton is that of an old man suffering from arthritis, New Guinea Man who has been found alive in a region just north of Australia, and finally Cro-Magnon and Modern Man which they claim is no different.[/ul]I’m not gonig to get in to the other things, but I had questions on the above. I have taken athropology classes and evolution was covered. At no time had I heard _most_ experts believe Lucy was a chimp. I’d never heard of Richard Leaky finding a normal human skull in rock 212 million years old. AFAIK, the chart commonly used showing man’s evolution doesn’t include many of the prehistoric men Jack Chick would have us believe is used as proof of evolution. We learned about Piltdown Man in school, and I mean the _whole_ story, down to it being discredited. I’ve never heard of Heidelburg Man, Nebraska Man, or New Guinea Man as proof of evolution. As for Neaderthal Man, isn’t it commonly accepted now that he was a cousin of sorts to modern man and not of direct lineage? And wasn’t there more than _one_ skeleton found? I mean, aren’t these in many caves in France? Could someone link to me a site showing the _real_ chart used to show the evolution of man? I did a search but came up with a ton of Pokemon(?!) links. I’m sure the chart Chick uses is not the same chart and I’d like to see how they compare. I also have question raised in the tract about the petrified trees and gills in human embryos, so if anyone wants to tackle those, I’m all ears. (Or eyes as the case may be here.) C’mon help fight my ignorance people, I’m asking for it! ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/142 "2001-11-07T04:46:13Z")
Ok, let’s give it another +5 for Christ on the cross, although I’d like to see Chick do something more creative with the Christ images. I also neglected to add +5 points for the Egyptian looking like a Vulcan (a subset of wonky Egyptians) as mentioned by **Tars Tarkas**. Bringing the total to 70. For you, **Lucki** , we’ll give you +50 for Actual Correspondence with a Chick Lackey. If you can provide evidence that you included HAW HAW HAW in your original email, you get an additional +20 points. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/143 "2001-11-07T04:54:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\*Just out of curiosity, how many hate-filled extremists have to be in any particular group before we can write off the entire group? As a percentage of the whole? \*\* Well, I think I’ll stick with calling haters “Hate-Filled Extremists” unless a group _states that it’s purpose is hateful_. Then, you can issue a blanket condemnation of the _group_, and I’ll not argue the point. I’m willing to write off hate-groups, but not _necessarily_ all the people _in_ the group. I cringe when groups that purport to be Christian advocate things that are un-Christian, and I’ll not argue that **gobear** has a strong point about the leadership of the Southern Baptists, but I’m not willing to “write off” the membership, most of whom are decent, God-fearing, easy-going folk. I’m not willing to “Write Off” people in general. There are misguided and ignorant folk everywhere, but the ignorant _can_ be educated, and the misguided _can_ be shown the error of their ways. Some will _choose_ to remain ignorant and misguided, but until someone _tries_ to help, and is rejected (and maybe not even then), you never know (and I don’t mean this is a strictly religious sense, either). To try and bring this back within the scope of the OP: Chick is either hateful, or cynical in the extreme. That makes him badly misguided. I doubt that he’s “ignorant” in the strict meaning of the word, although his Tracts could certainly be described as being so. He’s apparantly chosen this course deliberately, and will not be swayed. I personally suspect that he’s a scam artist, mining the mother load of gullibility. He _might_ be an _Agent Procacatuer_, trying to discredit Christianity, but I think that’s too paranoid a vision (although it would be comforting to believe), and Occam’s Razor says he’s either just a greedy jerk or a genuine nut-job. Maybe both. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/144 "2001-11-07T05:01:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bluethree \* > Isn’t the trinity primarily a _Catholic_ belief? Just to expand on what **amarinth** said, the Trinity is one of the fundamental ideas of Christianity, and the vast majority of all Christians accept it. Conservative Protestants, in fact, tend to attack groups which don’t accept the Trinity (Jehovah’s Witnesses) or have a very different understanding of the concept (Mormons) as being non-Christian “cults”. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \* > C’mon help fight my ignorance people, I’m asking for it! A good place to start is the [Talk.Origins Archive](http://www.talkorigins.org/). Here’s what Talk.Origins has to say about [Neandertals](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a_neands.html). This Talk.Origins page discusses [Hominid Species](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html) and has a [chart](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html#timeline) at the bottom. Piltdown Man is conspicuous by his absence. ---
**Author:** ![Servo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Servo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Servo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/145 "2001-11-07T12:57:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Some Guy \* > It’s entirely missing the truly bizarre logic of Dark Dungeons or [The Death Cookie](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp) The best part of The Death Cookie has to be the picture at the end with the woman going down on the “wafer god.” That is what she’s doing, right? I mean, she’s in bondage, that must be what she’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/146 "2001-11-07T14:20:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \* > **I have a question here. According to Mr. Chick’s gem [Big Daddy?](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp), a student disproves evolution by saying: > [list]\Piltdown Man which turned out to be a modern ape skull…\** IIRC, wasn’t Piltdown Man a hoax? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/147 "2001-11-07T14:23:49Z")
> [@](#): > > So, gobear, Yahweh and Allah are “toys” meant to be put away? And you accuse us faithful of being intolerant??? Calling imaginary deities “toys” is not intolerant; getting legislation passed to take away the civil rights of theists would be intolerant. How many gay groups have gotten voter initiatives passed to allow legal discrimination against Christians? Then compare that number to how many Christian groups have gotten voter initiatives passed to allow legal discrimination against gays. A guy hits me over the head with a club, I want to stop him and I’M intolerant? > [@](#): > > I cringe when groups that purport to be Christian advocate things that are un-Christian, and I’ll not argue that gobear has a strong point about the leadership of the Southern Baptists, but I’m not willing to “write off” the membership, most of whom are decent, God-fearing, easy-going folk First, FCs are just one sub-group of Christianity, and, as I have said REPEATEDLY they are the ones I fear. I got no beef with Copts, Greek Orthodox, Methodists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Nestorians, and so on, so far as they are liberal and tolerant themselves. The term “Fundamentalist” derives from a 1909 publication “The Fundamentals: A testimony to the truth” which proposed five required Christian beliefs for those opposed to the Modernist movement. Fundamentalist Christians typically believe that the Bible is inspired by God and is inerrant. They reject modern analysis of the Bible as a historical document written by authors who were attempting to promote their own evolving spiritual beliefs. Rather, they view the Bible as the literal Word of God, internally consistent, and free of error.The Assemblies of God is one Fundamentalist denomination. The Southern Baptist Convention has moved towards fundamentalism in recent years. Bob Jones University, the General Association of Regular Baptists, the Moody Bible Institute and other groups are also Fundamentalist. Among the most generally known Fundamentalist Christian leaders are Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Hal Lindsey. If this does not describe you, then I’m not bitching about you. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/148 "2001-11-07T14:55:49Z")
"And you’re right—people like Jack Chick scoff at the Mother Theresas . . . " —You mean I have SOMETHING IN COMMON WITH JACK CHICK?! Excuse me, ah gots t’ go lay down for awhile . . . ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/149 "2001-11-07T14:56:13Z")
Redboss: Are you saying a regular poster on the sdmb cannot have a minority opinion? I hope not. We are all supposed to be diverse. FTR, I am an Aseemblies of God church member. Of those famous guys you mentioned, Hal Lindsey gets my respect; the others don’t. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/150 "2001-11-07T15:08:41Z")
Tell you what–I give up. All theists are perfect avatars of universal love and compassion and I’m just a stupid atheist fag. Hope that makes everyone happy. ---
**Author:** ![Kayeby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@Kayeby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kayeby)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/151 "2001-11-07T15:09:58Z")
I believe what my dear **Redboss** means is that he finds it surprising that a Doper could have an opinion that is not backed up by evidence, and indeed, has been successfully argued against many times. Out of curiosity, have you read the HP books? Sometimes minority opinions are minority opinions for a very good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/152 "2001-11-07T15:15:28Z")
**gobear** , _now_ that you’re getting specific, I’m not bitching at you, either. That’s all I’m asking, that you remember that the leadership of any particular group reflects the strongest faction of that group, not necessarily all the members, nor even necessarily the majority of the group (And I mean that with regard to _any_ group, not necessarily Christian, nor even religious groups). ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/153 "2001-11-07T15:17:41Z")
Yes, I’ve read two of them. I foudn a lot of making it seem that lying and disobeying are a-okay. Not everyone will agree on everything. This isn’t a case of clear facts that prove me or you wrong. Its opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/154 "2001-11-07T15:28:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*"And you’re right—people like Jack Chick scoff at the Mother Theresas . . . " > > —You mean I have SOMETHING IN COMMON WITH JACK CHICK?! Excuse me, ah gots t’ go lay down for awhile . . . \*\* You know what I meant, **Eve**. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/155 "2001-11-07T15:28:21Z")
> [@](#): > > All theists are perfect avatars of universal love and compassion and I’m just a stupid atheist fag. Now you’re just throwing a snit. Martyr doesn’t look good on you, try wearing something else. ---
**Author:** ![Kayeby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@Kayeby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kayeby)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/156 "2001-11-07T15:32:28Z")
I don’t understand, **vanilla** - if you truly believe that HP encourages kids to lie, why not just teach your son that in many cases, lying is wrong and can hurt people? Or better yet, read the book with him and discuss parts that you feel are wrong? It seems to me that teaching your son the art of critical thinking and evaluation would be more beneficial than merely banning him from reading these books. I don’t mean to teach you how to raise your son - sorry if that’s how my post comes across. I’m just honestly baffled at why you would choose to ban HP. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/157 "2001-11-07T15:33:20Z")
Sorry. My boyfriend dumped me last night, and my self-confidence has been eviscerated. I don’t want to sound like a martyr, I just can’t carry on a coherent argument right now. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/158 "2001-11-07T15:37:09Z")
Kayeby; I understand your point. However, if there were a book that was quite popular, but there was passages about torturing animals, I wouldn’t want him to read That either. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/159 "2001-11-07T15:38:06Z")
I’m sorry about the pain you’re feeling right now, **gobear**. Ain’t nothing I can do except tell you … ah, the heck with that. It’s all maudlin, anyway. I wish I could help. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495/160 "2001-11-07T15:43:14Z")
**vanilla** - All this is very interesting, but I can’t help feeling that you’re avoiding the point. Maybe you could explain how the Harry Potter books are “intended to teach children witchcraft.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/theres-a-new-jack-chick-tract-and-boy-is-it-a-doozy/91495.md?page=9)